ALPA/USAPA topic for week of 1/31 to 2/6

[700UW]

Weak?

There are numerous pages on Google that show pilots arrested for incidents, it was two HP pilots for DUI, not the whole group.

You speaking about character?

Now that is the funniest thing I have read today!

Guess you did not read the article saying the company has stricter standards than the FAA.

Keep dodging the issue and avoiding answering the questions at hand.

 

[nostradamus]

Weak?

There are numerous pages on Google that show pilots arrested for incidents, it was two HP pilots for DUI, not the whole group.

You speaking about character?

Now that is the funniest thing I have read today!

Guess you did not read the article saying the company has stricter standards than the FAA.

Keep dodging the issue and avoiding answering the questions at hand.

Dodging what issue sir, I stated my opinion in reference to yours. In your attempt to aid a defendant, you are advertising their problems to the masses.

 

[700UW]

You have posted numerous times "incidents" with HP pilots, so I showed you US pilots have done the same.

Pot meet Kettle.

You cant lump everyone in the same group for the actions of a few.

Those incidents have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Just shows you cant debate the issue on the facts and resort to attacks.

 

[nostradamus]

You have posted numerous times "incidents" with HP pilots, so I showed you US pilots have done the same.

Pot meet Kettle.

You cant lump everyone in the same group for the actions of a few.

Those incidents have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Just shows you cant debate the issue on the facts and resort to attacks.

Your issues involved incidents where the pilots were exonerated. There is no pattern of abuse.

I rest my case sir.

 

[700UW]

You have nothing to rest, they were charged, the pilot had alcohol in his system, was yanked from the flight.

And keep avoiding the facts and the real issue.

You label all the HP pilots for the actions of a few, that is just plain ignorance.

 

[AWA320]

I own a business too! So there! As far as impending banruptcy, it was YOUR LEC rep at the time of the merger who stated that YOU would have been in bankruptcy, don't make me quote him again. Parker said it HIMSELF! Do you want me to QUOTE HIM....AGAIN? It was also revealed that without the merger YOU would have been in BK as well. I have the 10K on that and here is the link. You need to read it. The "business plan" Kirby refers to is the COMBINED business plan of BOTH CARRIERS....not of you or us separately.

Which LEC REP?? Is he still a rep or does he run hos own little news services call uturn? Uturn which by the way is full of Philly scare tactics which is one of the reasons they threw him out! Like he woud have that type of info anyway, get a grip man. Oh BTW like I said al you got is Parker said this and Parker said that! No hard data to offer except that which was AFTER THE MERGER, expected and typical with you east folk

I think the "hard financial data" is in the 10K for 2005. Oh wait, management lies so it can't be true. So where are those "profits" in 2005? A LOSS of 397 million is NOT a profit, my man. The trend was the INCREASING OF LOSSES year over year. Two quarters of consecutive "profit" does NOT make up for a yearly LOSS of 397 million!! Six months in the "grand scheme" of things does not make for good data for the long-term. Sorry to "break" your investment savvy.

The 10K admonishes us:

2005 let me say it again THE 2005 10K was AFTER THE MERGER so don't go stoking yourself too quick! AAA was broke and up agains the ropes this time for good! Air Wisconsin stole money from the pilots that was supposed to go to UAL. Eastshore put up the $125 million BECAUSE OF THE AWA DEAL! learn yout facts!!! Airbus put up the money BECAUSE OF THE AWA DEAL, learn your facts FIRST!!! So the 2005 10K didn't admonish jack it showed the power of the combined network, LEARN YOUR FACTS FIRST!!!

""Aviation fuel has historically been the Company’s second largest expense, but in 2005, aviation fuel was the largest expense. The average cost of a gallon of aviation fuel increased 33% from 2004 to 2005. Because the operations of the airlines are dependent upon aviation fuel, increases in aviation fuel costs could materially and adversely affect liquidity, results of operations and financial condition."

And THAT, SIR, is exactly WHAT WAS HAPPENING! Your sophmoric analysis leaves MUCH to be desired. READ THE 10-K!!

I did read the 10k and like I said it was AFTER THE MERGER not before so maybe this old sophmore know just a little bit more than the alumni huh. Do worry though easy fix, KNOW YOUR FACTS next time before you go pumping your broke ### company all up to something it wasn't!!!!!


We don't DESERVE IT ALL! And we've never said that. However, the seniority JUMP you argue makes NO LOGICAL SENSE! Borrowing power! What the HE!! are you talking about? Stockholder equity on the balance sheet was NEGATIVE!

AWA CAN'T GROW IN BANKRUPTCY EITHER!! Don't believe me, ask DOUG!

Here is Parker telling it at the Spring pilot meeting in 2006 LIKE IT IS:

Doug said this and Doug said that! What did the AWA financials say?? I see you swayed away from that, show the rest of us what those said IN 2004 ahhhh BEFORE THE MERGER!!! Yeah that's what I thought, long on entitlement really short on hard cold facts...

So there you have it...you guys 'pick and choose" who to believe and what to believe, but the analysis, AGAIN, is that BOTH OF OUR SITUATIONS WERE PRECARIOUS, US Airways in the short term and AWA in the long-term....measured in MONTHS, not YEARS, by the way. Doug was worried about "exit" financing if AWA went into BK but since BK didn't happen BECAUSE OF THE MERGER that scenario is moot as well. The merger saved BOTH OF US. It benefited BOTH OF US. Why do you think there talking mergers now? Synergies through cost savings and the REDUCTION OF LABOR create economies of scale to compete. But with NWA and DAL in BK, finding exit financing for AWA would have, most likely, been a long shot at best with fuel prices acting as unstable as they were. UAL and even DAL were having problems securing exit financing, if you remember. Thats why they kept putting off leaving BK. No money, no company.

Believe what you want.

You keep forgetting AAA was the second choice not the first!! It was ATA and I bet the outcome there between our pilots would have been much different than dealing with you "non rookies"!! SECOND CHOICE NOT FIRST! Get it yet? No body wanted to deal with usair andthis is an example of why because you destroy everything you come in contact with! AWA bankruptcy?? A long shot but the difference here my friend is we weren't in BK and you were! Twice in as many yrs so there is a huge difference in saying "you would be too" and your actually being there now isn't it???

 

[luvthe9]

You keep forgetting AAA was the second choice not the first!! It was ATA and I bet the outcome there between our pilots would have been much different than dealing with you "non rookies"!! SECOND CHOICE NOT FIRST! Get it yet? No body wanted to deal with usair andthis is an example of why because you destroy everything you come in contact with! AWA bankruptcy?? A long shot but the difference here my friend is we weren't in BK and you were! Twice in as many yrs so there is a huge difference in saying "you would be too" and your actually being there now isn't it???

Yes, Again it shows how STUPID America West and it's management team are, we wish you would have merged with them, they have all there routes up for sale now. How much longer for them?

 

[AWA320]

Yes, Again it shows how STUPID America West and it's management team are, we wish you would have merged with them, they have all there routes up for sale now. How much longer for them?

Ask yourself that same question, if not for this transaction how much longer would you have had?? Be thankful instead of the ungreatfull...

 

[EastUS]

East, you kill me. Regarding the "Concerned Pilots Committee" and the potential loss of dues money, does anyone short of a unicellular organism not see a relationship between the two? Is the CPC ALPA's attempt at a peace treaty or are there deeper motivations behind it? Seems to me if a contract proposal magically appears expect a cram-down, because that is always how this Broadway production goes, complete with a script filled with phrases like "tough decisions", "reaching out", "understanding each other", "coming together as one". Prater can't modify the award, otherwise he would have because that is how ALPA national operates- it is about survival of the parasite at all costs.

An attempted cram down would hardly surprise me. I expect Alpa to act solely in it's best interests...as usual. The germane issue at hand to me is: Do we choose to continue along burdened by the Alpa national parasite or rid ourselves of it? None can ever clearly see the future, and we certainly have the unfortunate delights associated with the old chinese curse/blessing: "May you live in interesting times"....and it's almost time to VOTE!

 

[EastUS]

Ask yourself that same question, if not for this transaction how much longer would you have had?? Be thankful instead of the ungreatfull...

For the sake of argument: Let's assume that US was dead without this transaction. None of us can ever know what was in store for either side with any degree of certainity in any case. According to Mr Parker, you might well have been on the street by now yourself. The transaction DID occur....period, and we must all find ways to live with it. To proffer any posturing of you/anyone personally being "owed" anything's patently absurd. To note that the deal-makers have been extremely enriched by this is obvious. To further note that you/I no line pilot had ANYTHING to do with creating this merger shouldn't be necessary.

 

[end_of_alpa]

THIS JUST IN!! Looks like WAR, now.

DATE:
TO:
FROM:
SUBJECT:

February 1, 2008
The Board of Directors
John Prater, President
Update on America West and USAirways

I want to report to you on developments concerning the AAA-AWA merger and the efforts by some AAA pilots through “USAPAâ€￾ to try to replace ALPA as their bargaining representative.

After a review of the facts in this case, the National Mediation Board (NMB) has determined that AAA and AWA are a single carrier for the purpose of a representation election. Following its procedures, the NMB will soon ask management for a list of pilots eligible to vote in the election. If USAPA has enough signed authorization cards (50% + 1 of the eligible voters), there will be an election to determine which union will represent the AAA and AWA pilots.

As I write this update, dedicated ALPA committee volunteers and elected representatives from America West and US Airways (their steering committees and several members of their respective merger and negotiating teams) have begun combined meetings to address all outstanding issues in order to produce a mutual comprehensive contract proposal. All have agreed that the proposals must adequately address seniority implementation issues and all open Negotiating Committee issues for both pilot groups, and that no proposal will be made until approved by both MECs.

These ALPA leaders have agreed to meet for the next 10 days at a neutral site to give this process the best chance for success [ Link 1]. ALPA staff and national ALPA resources have been made available to assist them in their work.

I am attaching a letter from the AAA MEC officers [ link 2] stating their unequivocal support for continued ALPA representation at US Airways and their commitment to stand up for their members and Union. The entire AWA MEC has already promised their public commitment to support ALPA. They are currently running at full speed with a call center and a full Family Awareness program in place.

I am also attaching a letter [ link 3] stating our complete support for their efforts to confront these difficult issues in the face of attempts by some to destroy the opportunity to produce a successful joint solution. I commend our pilot representatives on both the East and West for standing up for their Union. I have heard from many of them, and as you can see from my letter, I will contact all ALPA local council representatives and committee members on their decision to support ALPA.

I sincerely hope that each will stand up publicly for ALPA. But if any of them state that they support a different union, then I will ask them to resign their ALPA position immediately. Should any elected ALPA local council representative fail at this critical time to make a clear and unequivocal statement of support for ALPA, or should any act in violation of our Constitution and By-Laws, I will call a special Executive Council meeting for the purpose of acting on my recommendation for placing that local council in emergency trusteeship.

Your national officers and staff are fully engaged in the drive to keep the AAA and AWA pilots as our members. Please provide your personal support by reaching out to our US Airways members, and participating in activities around the system. If we do this, our fellow pilots will realize how much they are valued as our Union sisters and brothers. Please also send an e-mail to [email protected] to have your message passed through to your fellow pilots at US Airways.

As always, thank you for your support, and fly safe.

cc:
Executive Board
Executive Council
ALPA Committee Chairmen

 

[luvthe9]

Ask yourself that same question, if not for this transaction how much longer would you have had?? Be thankful instead of the ungreatfull...

America West would be out of busniess if it were not for us, This old news get over it. Go have a beer with Doug!

 

[end_of_alpa]

You keep forgetting AAA was the second choice not the first!! It was ATA and I bet the outcome there between our pilots would have been much different than dealing with you "non rookies"!! SECOND CHOICE NOT FIRST! Get it yet? No body wanted to deal with usair andthis is an example of why because you destroy everything you come in contact with! AWA bankruptcy?? A long shot but the difference here my friend is we weren't in BK and you were! Twice in as many yrs so there is a huge difference in saying "you would be too" and your actually being there now isn't it???

ATA was a losing money "spit" of an airline, too. Would have done NOTHING for the overall benefit of AWA.

However, this is from the year prior 10-K. You see, numbers denial and your "two quarterly" money making numbers don't add up to the grand scheme of this:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/706...p70172e10vk.htm

"We have sustained, and may continue to sustain significant operating losses.

For the year ended December 31, 2004, we incurred an operating loss of $43.8 million. In addition, we incurred operating losses for the years ended December 31, 2001 and 2002 resulting primarily from the decrease in revenue and passenger demand and the increase in operating costs after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. Recently, the operating losses resulted primarily from a substantial increase in the cost of jet fuel and excess domestic industry capacity resulting in lower revenue per available seat mile. We expect the threat of further terrorist attacks and continued instability in oil producing regions to continue to negatively impact our revenues and costs in the near-term. We may not be able to effectively counteract increasing costs through our cost reduction initiatives, customer service initiatives and revised pricing structures. Moreover, our liquidity and borrowing options are limited and we may not be able to survive a prolonged economic downturn, decreases in demand for air travel or further increases in jet fuel costs. The inability to sustain profitability may impair our ability to satisfy our obligations as they become due, obtain future equity or debt financing, respond to competitive developments and otherwise sustain or expand our business. (pg.12)


Because of our relatively low credit ratings, our borrowing costs may be high and our ability to incur additional debt may be impaired.

Our credit ratings are relatively low, with Moody’s assessment of AWA’s senior implied rating and senior unsecured debt rating at B3 and Caa2, respectively, Standard & Poor’s assessment of AWA’s and Holdings’ corporate credit ratings at B- and AWA’s senior unsecured rating at CCC, and Fitch Ratings’ assessment of AWA’s long-term and senior unsecured debt rating at CCC. In addition, Standard & Poor’s recently placed AWA’s aircraft debt on CreditWatch with negative implications as part of a broader review of aircraft-backed debt. Low credit ratings could cause our future borrowing costs to increase, which would increase our interest expense and could affect our earnings and our credit ratings could adversely affect our ability to obtain additional financing. The rating agencies base their ratings on our financial performance and operations, our cash flow and liquidity, the level of our indebtedness and industry conditions in general. If our financial performance or industry conditions do not improve, we may face future downgrades, which could further negatively impact our borrowing costs and the prices of our equity or debt securities. In addition, any downgrade of our credit ratings may indicate a decline in our business and in our ability to satisfy our obligations under our indebtedness." (pg. 14)

Don't believe the 10-K? You can sue Parker and the boys for false filings at the SEC. Good luck with that. You continue prove your point...that you have no point.

2004 2003 2002 2001 2000
Operating revenues $ 2,338,957 $ 2,254,497 $ 2,047,116 $ 2,065,913 $ 2,344,354
Operating expenses 2,382,728 2,232,362 2,206,540 2,476,594 2,356,991
Operating income (loss) (43,771) 22,135 (159,424) (410,681) (12,637)

The future trends for AWA sure looked like investment grade material as well!! (formatting does'nt do well here)

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:


This is the USAPA phone message for Sunday, February 3rd, 2008

Yesterday, a USAPA Officers' Update was emailed and posted to the USAirlinePilots.org web site. If you missed this important update, look for the "recent USAPA email" link on the home page.

Also on the USAPA home page, look for a link titled "The Future of Seniority." This legal analysis gives a thorough yet succinct look at the difference between Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs (contained both in our contract and in the recently signed law H.R. 2764) and ALPA merger policy, and explains in detail why the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions provide superior protection to US Airways pilots - assuming they are no longer in ALPA.

The replacement card campaign is in the final couple of days - response has been fantastic. For the remaining few who have not done so, it's still important for pilots to get a replacement card to the NMB. Cards must be overnighted no later than Tuesday, February 5th to be included in the tally. Instructions are on the home page.

Don't forget to stop by the USAPA road show on Friday, February 8th in Charlotte - look for us upstairs in the Airport Business Center. In attendance will be the principals of Empowered Benefits along with representatives of Harvey Watt; both to discuss insurance. Dr. Peter Lambrou will be available to discuss Aeromedical issues. Please stop by to meet USAPA’s officers, volunteers, lawyers and our insurance vendors. PowerPoint presentations will play all day regarding structure and services, logo items will be available and handouts on a number of topics will also be available. Pizza will be provided at lunchtime.

You may anticipate a barrage of communications from the current collective bargaining agent over the next few weeks. We suggest that you stay informed and stop by the USAPA web site often for updated information - in particular have a quick look at the updated "Rumor Control" section. Informed, you'll find it will be fairly easy to determine the motivations behind the various communications.

Fly safe, and thank you for your continuing support.

 

[sharktooth]

Ask yourself that same question, if not for this transaction how much longer would you have had?? Be thankful instead of the ungreatfull...

We are thankful. After slowly dying by the hand of ALPA from a thousand wounds, via the "nic", the east pilots were threatened by having their hearts ripped out and, finally, they responded as humans and said no. The west pilots refusal to negotiate, refusal to see reality and refusal to just act like human beings certainly helped and the east pilots thank you also.

In return for "waiting" a few extra years for upgrade, if you desire, you will get a highly responsive and effective union that will likely get you compensated far and away above that which the moribund, highly conflicted and union dinosaur, ALPA, could ever get you. In ten years, for the next merger mania you will have date of hire in your merger history that will protect you up to age sixty-five against startups that want to merge. Legacies sticking with ALPA will be assimilated in disadvantageous manner, likely at the whim of any tom, dick, tosi or harry arbitrator.

I truly thank you for your posts causing many pilots to flee to USAPA, please pass on to your friends on the ALPA web-board the east pilot thanks, also.

Eventually, even the east pilots will thank themselves.