ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[NYGiantsFan90]

I believe US is in violation of the RLA. Look for the West to take further action.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Ouch!

I wonder what this signifies in regards the status of the Transition Agreement?

I wonder if there's any precedent for he company establishing their own merged seniority list since it is obvious that the Nicolau award is destroying their business? If I were the company, I would be working on just such a plan. Chances are, if it appeared more fair to 50.1% of the pilots it would pass ratification.

I'm not advocating such an arrangement, just wonder exactly what the company is really obligated to accept on the basis of the effect on business. I thought I read somewhere that the company was able to reject an arbitrated award if it was obviously detrimental to it's business.

 

[P51Pilot]

Ouch!

I wonder what this signifies in regards the status of the Transition Agreement?

I wonder if there's any precedent for he company establishing their own merged seniority list since it is obvious that the Nicolau award is destroying their business? If I were the company, I would be working on just such a plan. Chances are, if it appeared more fair to 50.1% of the pilots it would pass ratification.

I'm not advocating such an arrangement, just wonder exactly what the company is really obligated to accept on the basis of the effect on business. I thought I read somewhere that the company was able to reject an arbitrated award if it was obviously detrimental to it's business.

It probably has more to do with maintaining a "laboratory environment" until the election is over.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

It probably has more to do with maintaining a "laboratory environment" until the election is over.

Good point. It may also have to do with the recent ruling by the NMB that both groups are now a single entity.

Seems like rejection of the award by the company would be the only way to save ALPA's bacon. I don't think anyone would argue that this award has had a detrimental effect on LCC, and it's not even in place yet!

 

[EastUS]

EastUS -

Do you ever stay on topic? Do you ever recognize facts? Have you seen the recent Hemmenway letter? The one about A330 tech stops on the China routes?

I heard that management is really worried about those tech stops - you east guys are so friggen old, they're not sure you have the stamina to make it on that super long duty day - with TWO whole landings.

Hahahaha.......that's too funny.

Have a nice weekend, blowhard. Go visit your Mom - take her to a dog show.

!) I like to think so. As per the tech stops? = Certainly. We clearly differ as to the amount of "tremendous pressure" such puts on a pilot though.
2) Perhaps youre' right. Those sort of "combat conditions" and lengthy work periods are likely best left to the Spartan Army heroes and fiercesome Wolverines out west.
3) It's good, and often necessary to enjoy humour in any enviornment. Life's too short not to.
4) Thanks. Were she yet living (an unfortunate situation that's developed from my being "so friggen old" and she having necessarily been actually, as opposed to "relatively" senior) I do rather think that she'd have found the chihuahua yapping continually emanating from your side on these boards sufficiently amusing without the need for travel. As for "blowhard"? I'm fine with any legal form of confrontation you're comfortable with, but I certainly wouldn't ever wish to place you under any "tremendous pressure"....

On the issues of job "ownership" and fantasies of "We saved you": I agree that no west pilot shoud forfeit his/her position to an east "fellow pilot". I find the notions of "ownership" expressed from the west to be both unrealistic, and wholly naieve though. All that anyone "brought" to this situation is their professional knowledge, experience and ability....period.
The "I/we (west) saved you", and the accomodating notion that I/we (east) then "owe" you folks anything's predicated on some childish and utterly bizarre fantasy that ANY/ALL of you did ANYTHING to establsh this "merger" or even had the tiniest part to play in any decisions that made this happen. The only thing that's "owed" herein is a concerted effort on both sides to eventually find some way to work together. We needn't ever become great friends.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

>>>The only thing that's "owed" herein is a concerted effort on both sides to eventually find some way to work together.

I could not agree more. Why then, did east ALPA refuse to negotiate for a new contract? Why then, did a slinter group feel the need to form up when they realized that they weren't getting their way with the west?

It's because you want it all - plain and simple. And also because whatever honor you have ever had, flew out the window long ago.


>>>We needn't ever become great friends.

Dang, I agree with you again!



By the way, God rest your mother's soul. And I do mean that sincerely.

NLC

 

[BoeingBoy]

So, BBB, Knower of All Things, what was the happy, bright financial condition of AWA at the time of the merger?

If you had an internet connection you too could be a Knower of All Things.......

It won't be an apples to apples comparison since HP wasn't in BK, so weren't required to file monthly financial reports with the court (see what you could know if you had an internet connection also). The US figures in the earlier post are for the end of August '05 with the burn being the 2005 average to that point.

At the end of 2Q05, HP had about $300 million in "cash" and were burning about $16 million a quarter during 2005.

For the "apples to apples" comparison, at the end of 2Q05 US had about $550 million in "cash" and had been burning about $90 million a quarter during 2005.

Why the big change in "cash burn" you ask? With that internet connection you'd know that US' "burn the furniture to stay warm" measures during the 1st half brought in quite a bit of cash or reduced expenditures. Just a few examples are getting the Air Whiskey DIP/investment money, canceling the Airbus/Embraer/Bombardier delivery positions to get the deposits/progress payments back, and selling the b/C-con jetways to the airport.

Just a friendly suggestion - you really should consider getting internet.....it opens the door to a wondrous world of knowledge.

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

ALPA AAA MEC UPDATE....
Item 4. The Contract Hotline will be unavailable next week, March 17th through March 21st. If pilots have questions that need immediate answers, they should call their LEC reps. Reps' updated contact information is on the pilots only website under "MEC Directory."

ALPA has had so many resignations they can't even man a phone next week?!

Yeah, when you are in the voting booth, don't just think of how lovely Prater is as a figure head, or how many lies you hear out of Herndon, or about the pension that they have that you don't, also think about all those simple phone services ALPA "provides" to you in exchange for the pay, vacation, and benefits that they traded for you.

But be sure to remember that if you delay you vote until the March 22nd, then the services will be more favorable than on the 20th.

ALPA.. the biggest advocate of USAPA.

 

[usabusdriver]

For the "apples to apples" comparison, at the end of 2Q05 US had about $550 million in "cash" and had been burning about $90 million a quarter during 2005.

Why the big change in "cash burn" you ask? With that internet connection you'd know that US' "burn the furniture to stay warm" measures during the 1st half brought in quite a bit of cash or reduced expenditures. Just a few examples are getting the Air Whiskey DIP/investment money, canceling the Airbus/Embraer/Bombardier delivery positions to get the deposits/progress payments back, and selling the b/C-con jetways to the airport.



Jim

Jim,

Do not forget the covenants for the ATSB guaranteed loans had minimum cash on hand levels. The reason management was "burning the furniture" was to prevent from going into default on the loan covenants which would have cascaded into a whole host of unpleasant issues.

 

[EastUS]

>>>The only thing that's "owed" herein is a concerted effort on both sides to eventually find some way to work together.

>>>We needn't ever become great friends.

Dang, I agree with you again!

"I could not agree more. Why then, did east ALPA refuse to negotiate for a new contract?" Ask them. I've zero use for Alpa.
"Why then, did a slinter group feel the need to form up when they realized that they weren't getting their way with the west?" The anti-Alpa movement has it's roots in far more than just Nic, which served as a fine catalyst, but represents but a small portion of the perceived reasons for dismissing Alpa.
"It's because you want it all - plain and simple." I've often stated that I find it wholly inappropriate for any east person to seek any west seat. How's that wanting it all in any way? What I've no use for is envisioning "newbies" swarming into positions ahead of my comrades that've invested far more time, flight hours, and sacrificed far more for the continuance of this clusterf--k operation than have ANY of your intended replacements.
"And also because whatever honor you have ever had, flew out the window long ago." Evidently in your estimation..which frankly, is of little concern to me, scratch that = ZERO concern. I've yet to see ANY reasons for my having the least bit of ANY personal respect for the west's "Righteous Position" or little "Army" tough-guy fantasies/Waah!..Gimme' my Nic!!"/"you mean Easties don't play fair!!"etc...and "The Great Alpo Goat Film" didn't much help either. It seems that we're hopelessly opposed as to what constitues Honor...no new material there for either side I'm afraid.
"By the way, God rest your mother's soul. And I do mean that sincerely" My honest thanks for that kind thought sir. I fret little over it, as I truly believe that the human Spirit is off to much greater, and truly magnificent adventures, after our little fruitfly-length lives are finished here. I've no thoughts that we do much of anything in our brief experience here that's worth resting on forever.

 

[hp_fa]

Jim,

Do not forget the covenants for the ATSB guaranteed loans had minimum cash on hand levels. The reason management was "burning the furniture" was to prevent from going into default on the loan covenants which would have cascaded into a whole host of unpleasant issues.

Wasn't there also a problem with the credit card processor at some point in time in the first third of 2005. That was also potentially an airline killer because of cash flow issues?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Do not forget the covenants for the ATSB guaranteed loans had minimum cash on hand levels.

Yes they did - and the minimum "cash" requirements were lowered twice - shortly after US entered BK2 and again in early 2005 (Jan I think, although it may have been Feb before the court approved the modification). Without the ATSB's two agreements to lower those minimums, US would have violated the covenants twice. One of the "what if's" I always wondered about was whether the ATSB could have actually called the loan since US was in BK and the ATSB-backed loan was a pre-BK debt. Of course, just entering BK2 violated the loan covenants so that may be a clue to the answer....

However, those minimum "cash" requirements didn't result in that amount becoming classified as restricted "cash". The "cash collateral", as it was called, was a part of the unrestricted "cash" number in the earlier post. So while US had the ~$550+ million or ~$400 million in "cash", most of it wasn't spendable if the ATSB requirements were to be met.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yes there was! However that was in BK#1.

Bob, BofA was also part of the BK2 script....

The credit card processing agreement with BofA required pre-deposits, with the amount depending on "cash" on hand - not surprisingky BofA wanted some assurence of getting paid after BK1. The pension payments for the groups that still had pensions was coming due - paying that would have reduced US' cash on hand enough to require addition money be put into the "pre-paid" fund at BofA. Putting that money in to meet BofA's requirements would have put US in violation of the ATSB "cash" on hand requirements. The result was that US filed for BK2 and didn't make the payments to the pensions.

Jim

 

[sharktooth]

The result was that US filed for BK2 and didn't make the payments to the pensions.

Jim,

US had not made payments to the pilots pension for over five years prior. Where was ALPA? - no action.

Some think US did not need to make any payment because several independent actuaries have now determined that the plan was covered by up to 98% of requirements. BTW, did you know that ALPA, contrary to their won C&BL "shall", never did hire independent actuaries to assess the value of the plan, taking the company and Towers Perrins (the caretakers of the plan) at their "word". Where was ALPA National?

I could go on but I don't want to stomp on any lawsuits out there.

 

[CaptBud330]

USAPA, Best of luck with the vote. This retired guy is pulling for you. Finish what we tried to do 20 years ago.