ALPA/USAPA topic for week of 1/31 to 2/6

[AWA320]

Doug parkers showed up clean shaven and sober to the merger, thats it.


Usairways reorganzation plan, click here

The stand alone plan would of worked. Merging Us Airways with drug running, drunk flying, scabbing pilots at AWA, led by a documented alcoholic ceo has proven to be a disaster.

Hahahaha You're killing me, stand alone plan where Nos where??? All that money came AFTER THE FACT nos not before. AAA had no plan, read your own dam report!!! New usairway, new usairways nos! Where was all this money when AAA was filing BK for the SECOND Time in as many years Nos?? That money came as a RESULT OF the merger not before it brother!!!

 

[nostradamus]

Hahahaha You're killing me, stand alone plan where Nos where??? All that money came AFTER THE FACT nos not before. AAA had no plan, read your own dam report!!! New usairway, new usairways nos! Where was all this money when AAA was filing BK for the SECOND Time in as many years Nos?? That money came as a RESULT OF the merger not before it brother!!!

The burden of proof is on you. May I suggest though, that you should learn from your CEO and not make any decisions under the influence.

I can smell the alcohol from your breath over my high speed connection.

 

[EastUS]

Hahahaha You're killing me, stand alone plan where Nos where??? All that money came AFTER THE FACT nos not before. AAA had no plan, read your own dam report!!! New usairway, new usairways nos! Where was all this money when AAA was filing BK for the SECOND Time in as many years Nos?? That money came as a RESULT OF the merger not before it brother!!!

Sigh..OK..fine then: Let's go within the boundaries of a moment's delightfull/delusional whimsy, and say that AWA was well established on a path to necessarilly become the world's dominant air carrier. We'll assume that AWA's cash coffers were established to the tune of countless billions. Let's further suppose that Alpa's the greatest thing since sliced bread, filled only with paragons of virtue and wisdom that mere mortals may only gawk at in awestruck and stunned admiration. Let's also imagine that virtually every east pilot's clinically insane and simply unable to grasp the obvious truths previously noted. We'll necessarily note that said insane easties aren't in any way, shape or form, going to cheerfully surrender decades of flying/work experience to you, based upon your four glorious years of AWA service, nor your notions of "how things should be"..and "what you deserve". Drop your adolescent rantings for but an instant, along with your pretended glee for your fantasized notions about the imminent demise of this enitre airline entity...and I'll even pretend that you/the west have any such power if it suits your fantasies. I'll briefly stiffle laughter at all your previous predictions = "You won't even get 200 cards!"/etc.

QUOTE (AWA320 @ Feb 2 2008, 02:18 AM)
Like I said looking forward to the day when usair is gone for good..."

Excuse me if I don't share your clear joy in any such fantasized prospect. I'm not personally fretting over much concerning myself and "mine" ever again with the old food-and-shelter-addiction, but many, many thousands of people would suffer if such came to pass...nice of you to be so caring as a "man up".."HONOR"..."integrity" type..words fail me......but do kindly note that Gallileo was right..and that the earth does indeed orbit around the sun..and thankfully.......not you...regardless of what Alpa-Nic has told you.....

NOW...What's your actual notions on how best to proceed?..That might even possibly WORK in the real world? :blink: DO you actually have ANYTHING to offer that even MIGHT be of use within the curent sitiuation? Here's your big chance younger sir.........

PS: Is there ANY conceivable point at which you MIGHT, for even the briefest of moments, allow that decades of observations by others of Alpa in "action" MIGHT actually be worth listening to?

 

[EastUS]

I hope USAPA is successful in the coming vote. It seems our ALPA steering committee is busy negotiating away parts of the Nicoloau award to appease ALPA and the east MEC.

WHAT THA' HE!! ??? Alpa doing back room/cloistered/no membership votes allowed/no actual interface with the "stupid line pilots"/etc secret "negotiations" against any/all pretended precepts of it's own supposed "principles", established "processes" and "constitution"???....Say that it isn't really so..PLEASE! :blink: Prechill...HOW could such BS be going on without even consulting a devout Alpoid of such clearly high "association" regard as yourself sir? You CAN NOT be insinuating that Alpa's less than not-at-all/the-least-bit actually concerned with the 1800 AWA pilots' "Holy Grail" issues? ..and is, instead..merely furthering it's own "Mother Ship" indulgences??? Well..Prater may truly need a new limo, so..who really knows? Seriously: YOU, of all people, can NOT be even slightly suggesting that the 1700-1800 AWA pilots don't mean spit to Alpa?...CAN you?..after it's been proven jsut how much the 3000+ out east mean to them? 😉 I'd likely never allow you as a proper friend in normal life (sorry=lacks credentials/interesting conversation potential via adventerous history/apparent lack of proper awe of life it's self /little time aloft/mutual war stories/respect/trust/etc), but I don't take you for being an utter fool = "It's ALL about THE MONEY" with those bastiges...end of story...period.

Sigh..the very last vestiges of my childlike wonder at life, and utter innocence..... are now in total tatters......Waaah!

Good Lord sir..the next thing one might reasonably then expect's a continually hyped up, "concerned pilots" propoganda campaign, coupled with a "magic contract" offer...umm..I'm guessing about a week to ten days prior to the election to dump Alpa 😉 I've been wrong before in life..They might toss it out to almost coincide with the election...in order to maximize confusion amongst any remaining utter fools/"sheep" .

Let none forget that there are many millions of annual dollars at stake for Alpo..not to mention the potential onset of the erosion/eradication of Alpo....so properly expect the absolute maximum in performance-theater BS, contrivance, and the long-standard outright lies.

 

[nostradamus]

Your suggestions seek to impose your rule by force which is a form of rape so you need to understand why we feel that we must fight to the death to ensure our survival and if we both die as a result then so be it but at the very least no fornication of our rears took place!!! One extreme to the next but the end result is we all parish!!!

We who have been represented by alpa, understand your feelings. Speaking of parish wich one are you going to tomorrow, since it is Sunday.

 

[end_of_alpa]

You seem to want to twist and or spin if you will my text. I never ever said management is against labor what I said is why would a managment team deal when it doesn't have to and labor is providing all the cover? You may in fact claim that I am not understanding of the business world and that too is ok but you see I own a business so my understanding if you will may in fact exceed yours! Yes you were in bankruptcy but claiming that we weren't far behind without any financial proof to your claim is moronic. You can sit by an say Doug Parker said this and Doug Parker said that but that means nothing without hard financial data and you bring absolutly zero proof that AWA was anywhere near bankruptcy, NONE. Now do I need to post AAA financials in the days prior to the announcement of the transaction??? Well there you go again, fuel prices at the time of this transaction where below $58/barrel and Kirby made the statement that with their business plan LCC would be poised to make profits with oil above $60. We can't drop this arguement because you haven't a clue about what you are talking about. If you bothered to check you would have found that AWA made profits in the two qts leading up to the transaction with the last one being the highest in AWA history. Bankruptcy not far behind huh?? Yeah right do the research and then come back and we'll talk

I own a business too! So there! As far as impending banruptcy, it was YOUR LEC rep at the time of the merger who stated that YOU would have been in bankruptcy, don't make me quote him again. Parker said it HIMSELF! Do you want me to QUOTE HIM....AGAIN? It was also revealed that without the merger YOU would have been in BK as well. I have the 10K on that and here is the link. You need to read it. The "business plan" Kirby refers to is the COMBINED business plan of BOTH CARRIERS....not of you or us separately.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/701...p72019e10vk.htm

I think the "hard financial data" is in the 10K for 2005. Oh wait, management lies so it can't be true. So where are those "profits" in 2005? A LOSS of 397 million is NOT a profit, my man. The trend was the INCREASING OF LOSSES year over year. Two quarters of consecutive "profit" does NOT make up for a yearly LOSS of 397 million!! Six months in the "grand scheme" of things does not make for good data for the long-term. Sorry to "break" your investment savvy.

The 10K admonishes us:

""Aviation fuel has historically been the Company’s second largest expense, but in 2005, aviation fuel was the largest expense. The average cost of a gallon of aviation fuel increased 33% from 2004 to 2005. Because the operations of the airlines are dependent upon aviation fuel, increases in aviation fuel costs could materially and adversely affect liquidity, results of operations and financial condition."

And THAT, SIR, is exactly WHAT WAS HAPPENING! Your sophmoric analysis leaves MUCH to be desired. READ THE 10-K!!

Ok so if the growth was in the east and you couldn't seem to make it without us which is obvious since you were in back to back bankruptcies. What makes you think that you are entitled to ALLl of the new flying/growth that LCC put together?? Com'on man why? I mean USAir was a complete and utter failure with ZERO growth prior to AWA so now that we have come together you think you deserve it all?? Greed and sense of entitlement, would that explain it?? Again do I need to post AWA financials prior to LCC? You are correct in that AWA didn't have the funds on it's own to pay for this transaction but we did have the borrowing power! AAA could borrow enough to purchase a snikers bar. No one was loaning AAA anymore money as it had become clear that it was throwing good money after bad. Again do some simple research then come back We may indeed be without union representation but then again whose fault would that be?? You have shown each of us in the west that you are completely unreasonable. There is no trust and probably never will be. You choose this path not us, remember that when its all over.

We don't DESERVE IT ALL! And we've never said that. However, the seniority JUMP you argue makes NO LOGICAL SENSE! Borrowing power! What the HE!! are you talking about? Stockholder equity on the balance sheet was NEGATIVE!

AWA CAN'T GROW IN BANKRUPTCY EITHER!! Don't believe me, ask DOUG!

Here is Parker telling it at the Spring pilot meeting in 2006 LIKE IT IS:

"Now, to be fair, what you DON’T know is, “What would have happened to America West if we hadn’t done the merger?â€

If you care what was going to happen to them you should care what was going to happen to US!!

What I do know for certain, because I was running the place, is that we didn’t have enough money to make it through the winter of 2005-2006. WE HAD INSUFFICIENT FUNDS TO MAKE IT THROUGH! We could have possibly raised more funds...and made it through...and I’m not saying we wouldn’t of...

Pilot ?: Even with loads at max capacity we didn’t have cash to go through...

Parker: ABSOLUTELY NOT...NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Pilot ?: I think we had a ticket price problem.

Parker: Absolutely, of course we did.

Pilot ?: We were flying full airplanes, and your telling me we didn’t have enough money?

Parker: So was Delta and Northwest...and they FILED BANKRUPTCY. It ran out of cash and we would have run out of cash. The prices only went up when seats went away, it was a race to see whose seats went away and WE KEPT OURS (SEATS) IN THE AIR BY DOING THE MERGER!! My strong belief and it’s probably not as high as ninety nine percent but in the high eighties is that we’d be in bankruptcy now. We wouldn’t have liquidated, we’d be in bankruptcy and we’d be going through cutting a bunch of airplanes and all this stuff that Northwest and Delta are doing and we’d be talking about concessions, not staying where we are because...I can tell you right now that I’d be telling you “look guys, everyone else has gotten their labor costs down to ours, we have or I’ve always told you we have a revenue DISADVANTAGE because of where we fly, Phoenix and Las Vegas, we can’t have costs the same, we’ve got to go even lower than where they are, and that’s the conversation we’d be having right now. So that’s where we were headed, I think, all this $h!t doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t cause what has happened is that none of that stuff happened. What happened is A BUNCH OF PEOPLE PUT IN MONEY BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED PUTTING THESE TWO COMPANIES TOGETHER WOULD WORK AND THAT WAS A MERGER, IT WASN’T AN ACQUISITION, WE DIDN’T HAVE ANY MONEY TO GO BUY US AIRWAYS.

A billion dollars in new investment, it was 867 million came in, new investment, thinking that would work and we made it work. We made it work. We got to realize where we are instead of who, what was going to happen to whom, particularly when none of us know for certain.

The bigger piece of this is, I’ve talked to some guys, I’ve talked to thousands of US Airways pilots and not one of them has said we didn’t need this. I’ve got a ton of them coming up and saying thank you very much and not one of them coming up to me and saying hey, we didn’t need this. Now they’re looking forward and saying we are where we are and how are we going to integrate it.

The second question is the insult of telling you your going to the US Airways contract. We are now in negotiations for a combined contract.... moving to the east contracts, that’s a legal argument that we feel very strongly about, it’s the way that the contracts are structured, if we’ve chosen not to negotiate and for some reason we had to go litigate, our position would be the America West contract didn’t have strong “successor-ship language†in it, the US Airways contract did... if there’s a merger, our contract (the US Airways pilot contract) prevails...it wasn’t strong in the America West contract, it’s pretty strong in the US Airways contract. Our legal position is if we have to consolidate them, then the US Airways contract prevails...Management has said, consistently, to every labor group, we went and did this...THE REASON THE 867 MILLION DOLLARS came in is that there were contracts on both sides that were essentially the same... essentially the same as each other and essentially where now other airlines are going. That is “market rate†what it takes to attract and retain the best people in the business.

So there you have it...you guys 'pick and choose" who to believe and what to believe, but the analysis, AGAIN, is that BOTH OF OUR SITUATIONS WERE PRECARIOUS, US Airways in the short term and AWA in the long-term....measured in MONTHS, not YEARS, by the way. Doug was worried about "exit" financing if AWA went into BK but since BK didn't happen BECAUSE OF THE MERGER that scenario is moot as well. The merger saved BOTH OF US. It benefited BOTH OF US. Why do you think there talking mergers now? Synergies through cost savings and the REDUCTION OF LABOR create economies of scale to compete. But with NWA and DAL in BK, finding exit financing for AWA would have, most likely, been a long shot at best with fuel prices acting as unstable as they were. UAL and even DAL were having problems securing exit financing, if you remember. Thats why they kept putting off leaving BK. No money, no company.

Believe what you want.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Sorry, somehow got posted twice. This is just a delete of a repeat.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

End,

Great post. But do you ever feel you're talkig to a _______ (Insert your favorite)

 

[EastUS]

I own a business too!

Well..yeah "Who doesn't?" 😉 I'm afraid that we're dealing with radically, and diamectrically opposssed paradigms here = "WOW!..I are an AIRLINE PYLUT" versus..yeah...big deal...great...I've been around awhile as well as flown for at least two-three plus entire years/24-7/365/hours-wise worth of your entire, wide-eyed, "innocent" and arrogant young life...like the clouds and sunsets too btw..just ain't much impressed with myself for that anymore/etc..and kindly get over yourself young AWA one...You didn't "invent" nor discover even the fairly safe and very timid "commercial" sky 😉 We're just NOT going to find readilly achievable common ground here with these guys/gals..........'Tis a puzzlement 😉

 

[AAA73Pilot]

'Tis a puzzlement 😉

You're right about that. Hard to figure.

 

[EastUS]

You're right about that. Hard to figure.

No matter in the end. Let's VOTE!

 

[EastUS]

You're right about that. Hard to figure.

My personal notions aside..we'll have to eventually work all this mess out. I'm just flat-out TIRED of these west people with their "Me!..ME!!..It's ALL about ME!!' BS at present. Thank the Lord for another imminent vacation. Take care Bro 😉

Let's VOTE!

PS: I should properly note the following = I'm NOT any holder of a USAPA position, nor am I the least bit of any spokesman for the fine gentlemen working their tails off to provide ...finally..some decent Union representation. That "entitles" me to speak as only an individual, and bluntly...my being totally, and utterly disgusted with the west's once arrogant, and filled with "Booshaka!/I won the lottery!/It's OVER/Final and Binding!/You won't even get 200 cards!/Send the cards, I Dare you!/Ho Ho Ho!..St Nic is coming to town!"/etc..ad nauseum..(That I'm past disgust in truth) with the west's evidently utterly prepubescent, hopelessly brain-dead, and pathetically now reduced to just angry and whiny BS, and the overall Alpa BS to the point of retching, is entirely a personal issue. If I'm ever feeling the need to seek out a buncha' sad, sorry little flying squirrels in search of their nuts to lecture me on "HONOR".."Integrity" and "man up" based upon some "association's" internecine BS...I'll know exactly who to call.

Fortunately; The gents putting this together have far more patience than I do 😉

Have a good one all. 😉

 

[prechilill]

WHAT THA' HE!! ??? Alpa doing back room/cloistered/no membership votes allowed/no actual interface with the "stupid line pilots"/etc secret "negotiations" against any/all pretended precepts of it's own supposed "principles", established "processes" and "constitution"???....Say that it isn't really so..PLEASE! :blink: Prechill...HOW could such BS be going on without even consulting a devout Alpoid of such clearly high "association" regard as yourself sir? You CAN NOT be insinuating that Alpa's less than not-at-all/the-least-bit actually concerned with the 1800 AWA pilots' "Holy Grail" issues? ..and is, instead..merely furthering it's own "Mother Ship" indulgences??? Well..Prater may truly need a new limo, so..who really knows? Seriously: YOU, of all people, can NOT be even slightly suggesting that the 1700-1800 AWA pilots don't mean spit to Alpa?...CAN you?..after it's been proven jsut how much the 3000+ out east mean to them? 😉 I'd likely never allow you as a proper friend in normal life (sorry=lacks credentials/interesting conversation potential via adventerous history/apparent lack of proper awe of life it's self /little time aloft/mutual war stories/respect/trust/etc), but I don't take you for being an utter fool = "It's ALL about THE MONEY" with those bastiges...end of story...period.

Sigh..the very last vestiges of my childlike wonder at life, and utter innocence..... are now in total tatters......Waaah!

Good Lord sir..the next thing one might reasonably then expect's a continually hyped up, "concerned pilots" propoganda campaign, coupled with a "magic contract" offer...umm..I'm guessing about a week to ten days prior to the election to dump Alpa 😉 I've been wrong before in life..They might toss it out to almost coincide with the election...in order to maximize confusion amongst any remaining utter fools/"sheep" .

Let none forget that there are many millions of annual dollars at stake for Alpo..not to mention the potential onset of the erosion/eradication of Alpo....so properly expect the absolute maximum in performance-theater BS, contrivance, and the long-standard outright lies.

East, you kill me. Regarding the "Concerned Pilots Committee" and the potential loss of dues money, does anyone short of a unicellular organism not see a relationship between the two? Is the CPC ALPA's attempt at a peace treaty or are there deeper motivations behind it? Seems to me if a contract proposal magically appears expect a cram-down, because that is always how this Broadway production goes, complete with a script filled with phrases like "tough decisions", "reaching out", "understanding each other", "coming together as one". Prater can't modify the award, otherwise he would have because that is how ALPA national operates- it is about survival of the parasite at all costs.

 

[700UW]

To the man who saw tomorrow:

Jan 20002

A US Airways pilot has been arrested for disorderly conduct and making "terrorist threats" at a security checkpoint at Philadelphia International Airport.

The pilot, Elwood Menear, allegedly said: "Why are you worried about tweezers when I could crash the plane?" while undergoing security checks before his flight on 13 January. The screeners thought the comments were inappropriate and police arrested Menear - who had been scheduled to fly from Philadelphia to Milwaukee.

A substitute pilot was called in to complete the flight, and the FBI is investigating the pilot's comment to determine whether federal charges should be filed, Reuters reported.

Pilot at LAX Grounded by Alcohol
A US Airways flight is delayed for four hours after a passenger reports smelling liquor on the officer's breath. Tests show he had alcohol in his blood.
By Jill Leovy and Jennifer Oldham, Times Staff Writers
April 8, 2006

A US Airways pilot was detained at Los Angeles International Airport on suspicion of being drunk before his flight Friday, and was later found to have alcohol in his blood.

The pilot, who was not identified, was scheduled to fly US Airways Flight 18 to Philadelphia, but the airline removed him from duty.

The search for a replacement pilot delayed the flight more than four hours after its scheduled 1:45 p.m. departure.

Airport security officials said a passenger smelled alcohol on the pilot's breath at the security checkpoint in Terminal One and reported it to screening officials, who summoned police.

The pilot was taken into custody for tests and failed a field sobriety test, security officials said.

At the LAX police station, a breath test was repeatedly administered to the pilot, airport officials said. They said that on the fourth test, the pilot's blood alcohol level registered 0.04%. US Airways contends that the official reading was 0.03%.

The higher level meets, but does not exceed, the legal limit allowed by the Federal Aviation Administration, US Airways spokesman Phil Gee said. The FAA's rule for pilots is half California's 0.08% blood-alcohol limit for driving.

The FAA temporarily took possession of the pilot's flight certificate, and an investigation was launched, airport security sources said. The FBI is also looking into the incident, they said.

Gee insisted that the pilot had not violated the law. He said that US Airways has stricter standards for drinking and flying than the FAA, however, and that the airline will investigate the pilot.

He declined to give specifics about US Airways' internal rules for drinking and flying, saying only that they were several times more stringent than the government's.

"Legally, the pilot still could have operated the aircraft. However, we hold employees to a higher standard, and we want to continue the investigation ourselves," Gee said.

If the pilot is found to have violated US Airways' policy, "we have absolutely no tolerance for matters like this," he added.

It remained unclear Friday how long before the flight the pilot was drinking. US Airways officials said he was stopped more than an hour before the flight. But airport officials believe that it was less than an hour before the scheduled departure. Airport police referred calls to the airline.

The issue of commercial airline pilots' drinking has come under scrutiny in recent months with a few high-profile incidents.

Original article here. (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pilot8apr08,0,4986499.story?coll=la-story-footer)

US,WN, AA, HP, AirTran, Vietnam Airlines, NW, Midwest, Aloha and Virgin Atlantic have had Pilots arrested over the years for being drunk or carrying guns, or drugs, does that make all the Pilots at those airlines drunks and criminals too?

An Eastern Pilot years ago was arrested for putting his wife in a wood chipper?

So are all former EA Pilots Murderers?

Your lame attempt at insulting and labeling HP pilots for the act of a few bad apples is just plain immature and shows you cant debate the real issue at hand.

Since this happened are all US Pilots Terrorists or Drunks as you claim all HP pilots are bad?

 

[nostradamus]

To the man who saw tomorrow:

Since this happened are all US Pilots Terrorists or Drunks as you claim all HP pilots are bad?

In the pilot at security incident, this gentleman was let go and subsequently sued and won.

The second incident, the pilot was not charged and as your article stated was not found guilty of any crime.

Character of a group questioning the others should be admissible. It is not one incident that proves character, it is over years when a pattern can become evident.

Very weak argument by the way, sir.