USAPA/ALPA thread of the week 5/31-6/6

[luvthe9]

I do.

Why don't you post your name since you feel so lucky

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Haven't paid a dime to USAPA, and still flying.[/color]

Russian roulette with a pink slip.

Having just spent some time in the training department, I got to hear some about this...apparently, someone very near the top of the food chain asked USAPA for 10 names, and they'd all be fired...then, next month, 10 more, and they'd be fired as well...and so on...until the point got made.

So, the only thing holding that back is USAPA at this point.

Still feelin' lucky?

FUD

The "equal and fair treatment" provisions of the RLA prevent this very thing from occurring.

Nice try.......NOT.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I'm not sure I would take much stock of rumors around the training department, but it really does appear to me that the company has embraced the reality that USAPA is here, and ALPA is not. It's unfortunate that some of the more vocal westies have caused that fact to be lost on their comrades.

I don't think the company has asked for 10 names so they could be fired. But Hemenway's unsolicited letter to USAPA last month outlining the company's understanding of the protocol to fire people for non-payment of dues/germane fees should have been a wake up call for the westies. Management has put pilots on notice that THEY recognize USAPA as the legal bargaining agent for all the pilots; it would behoove all the pilots to take note of that. The company wants and needs to move forward and is anxious to get USAPA into the process (see Doug Parker's CLT pilot crew meeting from May.)

Again, I don't think the company is soliciting names of pilots to fire, but once the USAPA process starts forward with billing, they those who end up in arrears will be reported to the company and the company has made it clear that they WILL fire pilots. A small minority of the westies (unfortunately, some who have been in leadership positions) have seen the aftermath of the NMB election as an elementary school game. It's time for the majority of the level-headed professionals in PHX and LAS to wake up to reality. Negotiations for YOUR contract will go forward with or without you; with or without your input; with our without your much sought after representatives. The company is ready; USAPA is ready. Quit playing games and get down to business, or the contract you regret may be your own.

I would suggest a re-read of the Hemmenway letter. No where in it does he say that the company WILL do anything in regards to firing people.

It does say they will follow the required steps involved in the process and that they MAY elect to fire pilots after ALL other avenues have been explored. This process could take a long time.

In the meantime, doesn't fusapa HAVE to pay its bills? Or will they try to renege on them too?


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[elixir]

Well, everyone has an opinion. I'm not making this up..I will not say who this senior manager was (although I was told)..but the gamble the west is playing is whether or not the company will comply with the union and the covenants of the contract regarding dues. I find it hard to believe the company will place themselves in the middle of it...why would they? they've stayed out of this for the most part, and Kirby made it pretty clear they will fulfill their legal obligations to the bargaining agent of record.

 

[sharktooth]

As has repeatedly been stated, you have us in numbers- that is your only advantage and also the reason the West will never be represented. I won't pay to sue USAPA and for their defense also.

My point is that, for eight years the dems were outvoted in Congress, yet they did manage to get things passed after a fashion. Even though outvoted, you can get things done. It may not be to your complete liking, but can, if artfully done, move your agenda in a favorable direction.

Representation is not about votes. Dictatorships have votes also. Do you think you are represented in a dictatorship?

It is about having a voice, a respected input, to a process. You may not get what you want right away, but, by moving the agenda a little bit at a time, you can eventually get what you want. A smooth talker can likely get it faster.

I sued ALPA, yet still paid their dues. What is the problem? I pay taxes and sue the government at the same time. You pay dues to enable a contract that you assert is broken. If you pay no dues, there is no contract. It is like not paying for an internet service because you intend to sue them for some breach of contract. What kind of stance will you take in a court when they find out you never enabled the contract by paying nothing?

It is like after 11Sep01 many Americans forgot their civics lessons.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I don't know about you but every time a Westie-pilot posts some illiterate diatribe regarding integrity and not paying union dues you have to think PHX is the land of misfit pilots.

Later,
Eye

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I don't know about you but every time a Westie-pilot posts some illiterate diatribe regarding integrity and not paying union dues you have to think PHX is the land of misfit pilots.

Later,
Eye

One could retort with the same statement regarding the eastyz and their current mantra: "Youz gotta play by da rules!!! Or else!!!!" (spoken with thick Philly mafioso accent)

Excuse me. ever heard of the Nicolau Award?

Time to open your eye, sky.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[nycbusdriver]

I would suggest a re-read of the Hemmenway letter. No where in it does he say that the company WILL do anything in regards to firing people.

It does say they will follow the required steps involved in the process and that they MAY elect to fire pilots after ALL other avenues have been explored. This process could take a long time.

In the meantime, doesn't fusapa HAVE to pay its bills? Or will they try to renege on them too?


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

I suggest that YOU reread it. I'll make it easy and quote the paragraph for you.

"However, in the event that a pilot becomes delinquent in paying dues or the service fees to USAPA, the following procedure is set out in the current labor contracts: (a) the union is to notify that pilot by certified mail, return receipt requested that he or she must remit the payment within fifteen (15) days or be discharged; (b ) if the pilot still owes monies at the end of the fifteen (15) day period, the union is to notify both the pilot and the Company that the pilot has not satisfied his or her obligation; (c ) the company must then take steps to discharge the pilot; (d) the pilot has five (5) days from the date of notification of his or her discharge to file a grievance with the Company's Vice President-Labor Relations. Unless there is some reason to believe that a pilot may not actually be in arrears, however, the Company can be forced to terminate the employment of a pilot who has failed to pay dues or the service charge." (emphasis added)

Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

One could retort with the same statement regarding the eastyz and their cuntrent mantra: "Youz gotta play by da rules!!! Or else!!!!" (spoken with thick Philly mafioso accent)

Excuse me. ever heard of the Nicolau Award?

Time to open your eye, sky.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

If you guys really knew the meaning of integrity there would be no pooping in envelopes and prank calling the 800-line.

Later,
Eye

 

[cactusboy53]

I don't know about you but every time a Westie-pilot posts some illiterate diatribe regarding integrity and not paying union dues you have to think PHX is the land of misfit pilots.

Later,
Eye

Eye;
As always it is most pleasant to see your tidy little blessings. Kindly seize with your teeth the vertical interior surface of a dwelling. Would that be a literal definition that you might be able to sink your hard bony appendages that are borne on the jaws into??

Not-so-repspectufully,
CB...the Westie

 

[Toothy Grin]

So now the fight is about "integrity" when there is such a huge lack thereof from many a poster.

Eye,

So long as you join the argument of who is "right" you'll always endup in the wrong...always. Negative situations such as this one require two sides/people and are resolved by two "mature" sides/people working through their differences with neither side being completely happy about the outcome on a personal basis...nevertheless each strives to be as happy with the outcome as possible because it serves the group as a whole beneficially, the company.

The need to be right has created so much trouble through the years, centuries, millenium...

Piney and another poster said it best a few pages back...reread and focus your "eye" on that information. Get out of the mud it clouds you're vision so....

 

[sharktooth]

One could retort with the same statement regarding the eastyz and their cuntrent mantra: "Youz gotta play by da rules!!! Or else!!!!" (spoken with thick Philly mafioso accent)

Excuse me. ever heard of the Nicolau Award?

Mr. Staple.

The "nic" requires two more pieces before activation. Those two are a "merger agreement" ratified by the west pilots and a "merger agreement" ratified by the east pilots, as well as the overseeing union to bless the trio.

I don't see either agreement nor the "blessing" union under which the blasphemy occurred, so, the "nic" is dead. It goes the way every signed "offer" you ever made on a house goes, into oblivion. I am certain you can dig them up, wave them around and maybe even trick someone into buying you a beer for them, but legally, they are worthless.

Grow up.

 

[legacy-to-LCC]

i have to chime in...

last saturday in mci, a westie captain strolled into the hotel lounge while we were waiting for the van to the airport. we greeted him. he said nothing. just grunted, or some other unintelligible nasal response.

it really didn't bother me: he was terribly overweight and utterly unkempt, a total embarrassment to the brand. the last laugh was on him; the hotel front desk agent just shot us a furtive smile of acknowledgment.

westies...regional mentality; global expectations...

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Eye;
As always it is most pleasant to see your tidy little blessings. Kindly seize with your teeth the vertical interior surface of a dwelling. Would that be a literal definition that you might be able to sink your hard bony appendages that are borne on the jaws into??

Not-so-repspectufully,
CB...the Westie

Love your "Beemer" icon. Was that your Nicolau dream car? Shame. FWIW Mercedes are much better than BMW.

Later,
Eye

 

[CactusFlyr]

So now the fight is about "integrity" when there is such a huge lack thereof from many a poster.

Eye,

So long as you join the argument of who is "right" you'll always endup in the wrong...always. Negative situations such as this one require two sides/people and are resolved by two "mature" sides/people working through their differences with neither side being completely happy about the outcome on a personal basis...nevertheless each strives to be as happy with the outcome as possible because it serves the group as a whole beneficially, the company.

The need to be right has created so much trouble through the years, centuries, millenium...

Piney and another poster said it best a few pages back...reread and focus your "eye" on that information. Get out of the mud it clouds you're vision so....

You should have thought of that when the arbitration came out, not after you declared war on the west.