USAPA/ALPA thread of the week 5/31-6/6

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Just wondering aloud here:

How many times does it take calling 1-877-678-7272 before one gets included in this lawsuit? Let's have an exact number, please. And could someone from fusapa please tell us exactly where that information is published?

Did the feces letter(s) have a return address? If not, how does anyone know who sent them? Are assumptions being made here?

Why does the lawsuit mention money that the West is not paying, when the fusapa royals haven't even sent out a bill to anyone yet?

What about the safety of flight issues that involve jumpseat riders on the flight deck? Can a civil lawsuit stand ANY chance of over-riding a safety issue?


These are honest questions that deserve honest answers. Only, we'll never see such a thing here.

Plenty of large holes in this lawsuit. And it will pretty much show the world what a bunch of crybaby leaders are running the baby union. And Seham, et al will be laughing all the way to the bank.......


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[cleardirect]

You may take direction from "word on the street". Fortunately, for the rest of us, there is, indeed, a commuter policy in effect. In return for giving up company paid move and home purchase, the east pilots got a commuter policy. If you were not so lazy, you might start by looking it up and see if it applies to you, when they close LAS/PHX?

If they close PHX/LAS How are you possibly going to come up with “conditions and restrictions that protect the west pre-merger career expectationsâ€￾? We would all be stuck in east coast bases.

The only ideas USAPA had was to fence PHX/LAS for life. If we are forced to move, that DOH list is looking mighty unfair. As admitted by many in USAPA leadership and on this board.

You guys better hope that PHX is not closed. Otherwise any possibility of your dreamed up DOH list goes POOOF!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Just wondering aloud here:

How many times does it take calling 1-877-678-7272 before one gets included in this lawsuit? Let's have an exact number, please. And could someone from fusapa please tell us exactly where that information is published?

Did the feces letter(s) have a return address? If not, how does anyone know who sent them? Are assumptions being made here?

Why does the lawsuit mention money that the West is not paying, when the fusapa royals haven't even sent out a bill to anyone yet?

What about the safety of flight issues that involve jumpseat riders on the flight deck? Can a civil lawsuit stand ANY chance of over-riding a safety issue?


These are honest questions that deserve honest answers. Only, we'll never see such a thing here.

Plenty of large holes in this lawsuit. And it will pretty much show the world what a bunch of crybaby leaders are running the baby union. And Seham, et al will be laughing all the way to the bank.......


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

The answers to all of your questions will be forthcoming. But not on a public internet forum. They will be answered on another public forum known as the United States District Court. Please sit quietly and standby. Enjoy the show, if you can. All will be made known in due time.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If they close PHX/LAS How are you possibly going to come up with “conditions and restrictions that protect the west pre-merger career expectationsâ€￾? We would all be stuck in east coast bases.

The only ideas USAPA had was to fence PHX/LAS for life. If we are forced to move, that DOH list is looking mighty unfair. As admitted by many in USAPA leadership and on this board.

You guys better hope that PHX is not closed. Otherwise any possibility of your dreamed up DOH list goes POOOF!

You have valid concerns. But, taking my cue from the westies, if those bases were to close and the east bases remained open, who then REALLY had the career expectations? Who REALLY saved whom?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[sharktooth]

If they close PHX/LAS How are you possibly going to come up with “conditions and restrictions that protect the west pre-merger career expectationsâ€￾? We would all be stuck in east coast bases.

Indeed, the east pilots have been soliciting the west input for just that scenario. Got any ideas? Get them to your reps. Don't have reps. Get them.

It is not just the old, "lead a horse to water" thingy. I guess sometimes ya have to (figuratively) smack 'em upside the head.

The only ideas USAPA had was to fence PHX/LAS for life. If we are forced to move, that DOH list is looking mighty unfair. As admitted by many in USAPA leadership and on this board.

Fence for life. Wasn't that your career expectation? PHX/LAS forever? I think you misunderstand. If anyone from USAPA said anything about DOH, it was that DOH without conditions and restrictions would be unfair, just as the staple job you wanted to pull on the ATA dudes, without conditions and restrictions would have been unfair.

You guys better hope that PHX is not closed. Otherwise any possibility of your dreamed up DOH list goes POOOF!

I, personally, think closing PHX would be just as stupid as closing PIT. Oh, wait.

The DOH list will not go "POOOF!" because one can always design conditions and restrictions to make the pain of contraction as equal as possible. What did the west pilots have in mind if they "merged" with ATA and there was a subsequent downsize? Did you even think that far in advance?

 

[Piedmont1984]

You may want to reconsider your remarks. Clue is a pretty talented professional in his chosen field and he certainly has displayed a far greater level of decorum and professionalism then the bulk of the pilot posters here. I allow Clue to inform you as to his credentials, however I assure you he is no lightweight.

Can't you give us a clue?

 

[cleardirect]

The DOH list will not go "POOOF!" because one can always design conditions and restrictions to make the pain of contraction as equal as possible. What did the west pilots have in mind if they "merged" with ATA and there was a subsequent downsize? Did you even think that far in advance?

When did AWA and ATA merge? Have you been reading U-turn again. Oh that’s right you east guys live in the alternate reality universe. A merger was discussed. We never even got close to integration talks.

So you guys go and play what if all day long but has no meaning.

 

[cleardirect]

You have valid concerns. But, taking my cue from the westies, if those bases were to close and the east bases remained open, who then REALLY had the career expectations? Who REALLY saved whom?

Inquiring minds want to know.

If your mind was really so inquiring you might do a bit of research. Read a newspaper, ask Parker point blank what AAA restructuring plan was. Watch a crew news where Parker says clearly that AAA plan was to liquidate.

So in 2005 at the time of the merger my career expectation was to take delivery of the 20 airplanes that we had on order. Continue to grow and upgrade. Your career expectation in 2005 was to take delivery of a load of bicycles at Wal-Mart. Because AAA was going to cease to exist.

Moving forward without the merger in today’s economic environment AWA as a stand alone could very well be in trouble. However CLT and PHL and the rest of the trash bases out east would no long exist. So moving there would not happen.

But your career expectation in 2005 was about a week long. For you and the rest of the east to continue to delude yourself into thinking that the east saved anyone is just sad. The is no point is even debating that fact.

 

[Piedmont1984]

If your mind was really so inquiring you might do a bit of research. Read a newspaper, ask Parker point blank what AAA restructuring plan was. Watch a crew news where Parker says clearly that AAA plan was to liquidate.

So in 2005 at the time of the merger my career expectation was to take delivery of the 20 airplanes that we had on order. Continue to grow and upgrade. Your career expectation in 2005 was to take delivery of a load of bicycles at Wal-Mart. Because AAA was going to cease to exist.

Moving forward without the merger in today’s economic environment AWA as a stand alone could very well be in trouble. However CLT and PHL and the rest of the trash bases out east would no long exist. So moving there would not happen.

But your career expectation in 2005 was about a week long. For you and the rest of the east to continue to delude yourself into thinking that the east saved anyone is just sad. The is no point is even debating that fact.

Your remarks have no basis in fact. They are based on bitter sentiment over the way things have played out.

It wasn't Parker's restructuring plan, it was Lakefield's. And the plan makes no reference to liquidation - perhaps you should take your own advice and do some research. Read the POR.

NYC's remarks are on target. The money was and is in the East bases. That is where the profits came starting 5 minutes after the merger and until this past quarter.

And if the merger did not happen between USAirways and AWA, you would be working at Wal-Mart unloading bicycles as well, except that NYC would be more senior to you.

 

[sharktooth]

Watch a crew news where Parker says clearly that AAA plan was to liquidate.

YMMV, but, I think he said "a" plan was to liquidate, a safe comment, not that he would be privy to such information. After all, he never really was forthcoming about HPs plan for liquidation, depending on someone else to "leak" that one.

 

[nycbusdriver]

So in 2005 at the time of the merger my career expectation was to take delivery of the 20 airplanes that we had on order. Continue to grow and upgrade. Your career expectation in 2005 was to take delivery of a load of bicycles at Wal-Mart. Because AAA was going to cease to exist.

Wrong.

Parker said in a PHX pilot crew meeting to an F/O that, absent the merger, he (the F/O) probably wouldn't have a job because AWA would have filed Chapter 11 and cut back operations drastically. That's pretty far from your expectations of 20 new airplanes and continuing to grow.

 

[EastUS]

You may want to reconsider your remarks. Clue is a pretty talented professional in his chosen field and he certainly has displayed a far greater level of decorum and professionalism then the bulk of the pilot posters here. I allow Clue to inform you as to his credentials, however I assure you he is no lightweight.

Fair enough..assuming that, based on prior postings on other threads, his "chosen field" is fully inclusive of being an expert gunfighter, self-qualified "pilot", and presumably, a very well-versed attorney. Otherwise? Spare me/all such generous assumptions. Neither ignorance, nor arrogance is truly bliss..and yes..those were lessons I learned the hard way over time myself. As far as "displayed a far greater level of decorum and professionalism then the bulk of the pilot posters here."?....I'll go with "the eye of the beholder", and note that, ahem.."most all" posters herein have "expressed themselves" at times with rather interesting colorations. Whenever any given assertions seem ridiculous..it seems reasonable to call people on them, most certainly as to what the basis for such are. Any variants on: "The Great and Powerful OZ has the situation well in hand" have never much impressed me with anyone, anywhere, at any time, nor should blanket assertions of unsubstantiated knowledge/competence ever serve to impress anyone. Clue: "You drive the bus. I'll do what I do." strikes me as a fully reasonable basis for asking what "I'll do what I do" actually amounts to.

"..however I assure you he is no lightweight." Well..we all of us have our varying criteria as to what constitutes a "lightweight"

 

[EastUS]

Just wondering aloud here:

What about the safety of flight issues that involve jumpseat riders on the flight deck? Can a civil lawsuit stand ANY chance of over-riding a safety issue?

"These are honest questions that deserve honest answers. Only, we'll never see such a thing here." No problem sir. I'm sure said questions will al be addressed within the legal system over time.

Speaking of Honest Questions = Please explain to any/all, exactly HOW having someone on the jumpseat,....who's only known "crime" is of being from another section of the work group,...ANY supposed "safety of flight" issue? If that's sufficiently "distracting" and "dangerous"..I'd sure hate to see such "Captains" as would think so...EVER placed under ANY actually serious stresses. For every "pilot" that would testify as to such being any "safety" issue...there's many, many more that would counter any such a pathetically childish claim.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/617159/the_h...cockpit_moment/

 

[Bear96]

Fair enough..assuming that, based on prior postings on other threads, his "chosen field" is fully inclusive of being an expert gunfighter, self-qualified "pilot", and very well-versed attorney. Otherwise? Spare me/all such generous assumptions. Neither ignorance, nor arrogance is truly bliss..and yes..those were lessons I learned the hard way over time myself. As far as "displayed a far greater level of decorum and professionalism then the bulk of the pilot posters here."?....I'll go with "the eye of the beholder", and note that, ahem.."most all" posters herein have "expressed themselves" at times with rather interesting colorations. Whenever any given assertions seem ridiculous..it seems reasonable to call people on them, most certainly as to what the basis for such are. Any variants on: "The Great and Powerful OZ has the situation well in hand" have never much impressed me with anyone, anywhere, at any time, nor should blanket assertions of unsubstantiated knowledge/competence ever serve to impress anyone. Clue: "You drive the bus. I'll do what I do." strikes me as a fully reasonable basis for asking what "I'll do what I do" actually amounts to.

What?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Fair enough..assuming that, based on prior postings on other threads, his "chosen field" is fully inclusive of being an expert gunfighter, self-qualified "pilot", and very well-versed attorney. Otherwise? Spare me/all such generous assumptions. Neither ignorance, nor arrogance is truly bliss..and yes..those were lessons I learned the hard way over time myself. As far as "displayed a far greater level of decorum and professionalism then the bulk of the pilot posters here."?....I'll go with "the eye of the beholder", and note that, ahem.."most all" posters herein have "expressed themselves" at times with rather interesting colorations. Whenever any given assertions seem ridiculous..it seems reasonable to call people on them, most certainly as to what the basis for such are. Any variants on: "The Great and Powerful OZ has the situation well in hand" have never much impressed me with anyone, anywhere, at any time, nor should blanket assertions of unsubstantiated knowledge/competence ever serve to impress anyone. Clue: "You drive the bus. I'll do what I do." strikes me as a fully reasonable basis for asking what "I'll do what I do" actually amounts to.

What?

Made perfect sense to me. Read again, but slowly this time.