US Pilot Labor Thread for the week 6/6 to 6/13

[AAA73Pilot]

Hmmm... So now we are a country of laws and due process?

Kinda like the due process of negotiation - mediation - arbitration and the law that says binding arbitration is final and, well... BINDING. Right?

Or are the laws only applicable selectively?

Yep we are.

Is that the law of ALPA? Where is ALPA again?

Welcome to the new world. Oh thats right, you're not a member either. Oh well.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

NLC,
You're just a FLAMEBAITER, and I'll no longer respond to such posters

Good day

 

[sharktooth]

Even in a country like Iraq, with all it's myriad issues, they still didn't write a constitution without input from all interested parties.

Yes, especially the US. The key phrase is "all interested parties". How many westies have volunteered to help in writing the constitution? How many have volunteered to help? period.

No one said, "This is the new law of the land, like it or leave it."

I guess that is why over four million Iraqis have left.

They had free elections (USAPA has had none)

Yes, if you consider that all vehicular traffic was shut down that day, there not being enough electricity to enable computer type balloting and most "voters" wore bullet-proof vests. Aside from the fact that less than half of the candidates said anything, fearing retribution of some kind and the few voting places were surrounded by helicopters, hummers and armed troops, not intimidating at all. 🙁

they took input from all major parties and wrote a constitution (USAPA crafted theirs in a smokey backroom with total disregard for west interests),

No they did not. Unless you count a minority Shiite group and, of course, the US. The rest walked out, not being able to get past a constitution written by the occupation, that is, the US. They even had to change their rules about a quorum to even get a vote.

If you want to use an analogy, the Iraq vote is hardly the one you want, being about as least democratic as any, whose only purpose was to allow lies like you laid out to get the thief in chief to return.

Is that what the US pilots were voting for 2 months ago?

I cannot speak for everyone, but it seems the east pilots were tired of the tyranny of other airlines using our dues resources to divvy up the US route structure, writing a grossly premature obit based on lies and wishful thinking. Did not the west pilots try to exit ALPA, say, in 2004? and, wow! notes from your merger committee concerning ATA. Shameful!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Why would the west want to assimilate into an airline that has a long track record of making Captains into Co-pilots? I beleive that should LCC finally liquidate it will mark the bottom of this long period of suffering. I also beleive that most of the pilots east and west will be better off in the long term should this occur. Eventually oil prices will crash and the survivors will hire again. This is clearly an impossibility to combine the groups in any meaningful and positive way. AAA could not have merged with any carrier and not had these same identical problems. The solution was to fence the east heavies for all east pilots and fence the east attrition for a reasonable amount...70-90% of east attrition should go to east, they also could have negotiated DOH bidding in east bases for some length of time. Something along these lines would have been reasonable under the circumstances. No adults in sight, and now it is even worse. Someone give us a thesis on how LCC will thrive in the future?

The companies that survive will be the ones that can get lean enough to lose the least amount of money. I think that LCC is in a good position here. Larger companies will have a harder time down sizing.

I think that Doug and gang are trying the right things. We, as an airline, need to focus on the REAL important stuff, like providing ON TIME transportation. That's really what it's all about. Looks like in his message he said that all the Frequent Flyer qualifiers will be exempt from most of the fees, which means that mostly the leasure travellers will be paying them. The leasure guys are the ones that generally get the "good deal" tickets anyway, so I think they will gladly pay a little more for a lower priced ticket. It gives them the option of how to travel and what to pay for.

Looks like the restructuring of the industry is finally, painfully, underway. You can bet there's more pain on the way for the employees.

 

[checksix]

Hmmm... So now we are a country of laws and due process? Kinda like the due process of negotiation - mediation - arbitration and the law that says binding arbitration is final and, well... BINDING. Right? I guess then we can say "So sorry. Pay up and better luck at the next arbitration." Or are the laws only applicable selectively?

ALPA is not the law of the land and their due process can be extremely questionable at times. Your point is baseless; federal/state law vs. a recognized labor union and internal processes.

To be frank, I would think that with UAL parking 100 airplanes, 1000 pilot furloughs, basically no business plan other than to shrink/sell assets, accepted in the industry as the most likely carrier to go Chapter 11 in the near future and, last but not least, recently cited as the worst airline in the US.................one might think you have your hands full on the UAL board.

You certainly have a right to an opinion and express it here, I think it is quite subjective however. Of course, that's just my opinion.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

How about actually tring to "contribute" something other than male bovine doo doo to this board.

NLC

No, we'll just wait for the next mailing.

 

[luvn737s]

The companies that survive will be the ones that can get lean enough to lose the least amount of money. I think that LCC is in a good position here, in larger companies will have a harder time down sizing.

I think that Doug and gang are trying the right things. We, as an airline, need to focus on the REAL important stuff, like providing ON TIME transportation. That's really what it's all about. Looks like in his message he said that all the Frequent Flyer qualifiers will be exempt from most of the fees, which means that mostly the leasure travellers will be paying them. The leasure guys are the ones that generally get the "good deal" tickets anyway, so I think they will gladly pay a little more for a lower priced ticket. It gives them the option of how to travel and what to pay for.

Looks like the restructuring of the industry is finally, painfully, underway. You can bet there's more pain on the way for the employees.

You forgot to add, "for the west pilots". Does USAPA have a plan for getting 40% of the group, once they are stapled to the bottom of the list erasing their career plans so as to somehow redeem those of the east, on board to ward building a better airline? Or will they let their patented arrogance and hubris convince them that 40% aren't needed and can be tossed aside without consequences? How can the USAPA "Pilotburo" of appointed cronies live with the fact that they are playing God with the careers of 1800+ pilots? If USAPA is planning on a defense that they tried all they could to engage the west in participating, but none of them were willing to be accomplices in their own career dissection, they're not doing that great a job. I doubt a judge would look at a threatening "welcome" letter and a bunch of billing statements as evidence that USAPA was doing all it could to advance the career prospects of ALL US pilots.

Since the bulk of the west pilots have abandoned these boards to concentrate on doing what USAPA won't, I don't expect anything but the same tired responses from the usual suspects.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Since the bulk of the west pilots have abandoned these boards to concentrate on doing what USAPA won't, I don't expect anything but the same tired responses from the usual suspects.

My guess is that the "loud" west pilots are not on this board anymore at the advice of THEIR LAWYER, since there is an 11 charge indictment against them.

If $135/bbl oil hasn't made you pause to rethink any sort of "career expectations", I suggest you take some time to do so.

 

[luvn737s]

My guess is that the "loud" west pilots are not on this board anymore at the advice of THEIR LAWYER, since there is an 11 charge indictment against them.

If $135/bbl oil hasn't made you pause to rethink any sort of "career expectations", I suggest you take some time to do so.

My guess is that their lawyer is busy collecting postings and subpeonaing IP addresses from USPA supporters from this and other sites as well in their defense.

 

[hp_fa]

What Indictment? Are you referring to the Complaint?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

What Indictment? Are you referring to the Complaint?

Yes, of course. Should have said "11 charge complaint". No Grand Jury here.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

My guess is that their lawyer is busy collecting postings and subpeonaing IP addresses from USPA supporters from this and other sites as well in their defense.

He wouldn't be doing his job if he weren't. Good thing the USAPA supporters have been acting in a more mature fashion.

 

[checksix]

To those pilots who refuse to join their labor union and participate in the direction and progression of their/our careers: If you are not part of the solution......you are part of the problem. Get onboard or get out of the way, just do one or the other.

Here's a good example of a union whose members are part of the solution............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LooOXupWcGQ

 

[EastUS]

My guess is that their lawyer is busy collecting postings and subpeonaing IP addresses from USPA supporters from this and other sites as well in their defense.

Good luck with any/all of that. I can easilly imagine "justified" variants within any such potential "defense" = "But Your Honor!...The envelope was just sitting there!..and I was just cleaning it when it went off!"...."I had just read the postings..and The Voices just took over!!".... "I didn't even realize that I was reaching for the phone....hundreds or even thousands of times!". "It was the postings/The Voices I tell you!!". This should prove "interesting" during any potential proceedings ="I see Capt/FO Whoever....Isn't it true that you're responsible for the lives of hundreds of people every day that you fly?"..."but yet...some inane internet postings were enough to drive your personal behavior over the edge and out of control?"....

The west vs east conflict serves no one well. The east folks have continually invited full west participation and input into the Union's business. The west folks have, thus far, adamantly refused at all levels...to put it in the kindest terms. I'll simply go with an old notion therein = "You're either part of the solution, or you're part of the problem". Your choice.

 

[Pi brat]

East Bid 08-04 available on the hub. All 125 furloughs on it.