USAPA/ALPA thread of the week 5/31-6/6

[kubotapilot]

Have they tried to take jetliners full of passengers on excursions through the mud? Those pilots seem rather unfit to fly.

Well, while we are in to mud-slinging...I would much prefer the mud excursion to riding in the back with two guys up front who had way too many mud-slides at the bar several hours before the flight....

Verrry entertaining isn't this...you guys really need to get a reality check and grow up...the "f" word is coming and it ends in "urlough", get your priorities together 'cause how it is administered won't be based on your defunct 'nic list oops i mean lottery er i mean award !

 

[elixir]

Yes, but they have their crackerjack USAPA defense crew to represent their side of the story, so no worries. Oh, by the way, does USAPA have a professional standards committee, or do they just use the CP office to handle things. For that matter do they have standards of any kind?

I want to thank you personally, 73's...the more you talk, the less I have to.

I don't want to fight, but obviously you and your friends do...(maybe I should call it a gang...)

You know, of course, that the information age will get ahold of your west "activities"...heck, it's already done, I'm sure....and you and your gang have hurt this company by the perspective vocalized by an earlier poster who will never fly LCC again....

Congratulations...

I'm sure the company will thank you all properly when the time comes.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Yes, I do. I believe that the Angry FO From Cranberry Club is indeed that stupid. If the phone calls and feces mailbombs were the problem, they should have turned it over to the authorities and been done with it. They don't have a prayer in hell of making a racketeering charge stick. It's a rather shortsighted way of trying to cost a few westies some cash.

Did someone say they were not investigating? Think about it. You may be right about RICO. But it does set a pattern.

Is this brought by the same group of people who shot down their ALPA MEC's ability to negotiate, forced a "DOH or nothing" strategy at arbitration, got creamed, and are now trying to end-around binding arbitration?

In a nutshell.......NO

Really. Half of that lawsuit is/was stupid, and the other half (the SLAPP happy side) won't go anywhere. A smart person would have let these idiots out west who are doing stupid stuff bury themselves. Of course, that presupposes "smart" enters the equation at some point with USAPA.

Thanks. Case closed then. See ya in court for the verdict.

 

[sharktooth]

Word on the street is that the company can't tell you where to live, only that you have to show up on time.

You may take direction from "word on the street". Fortunately, for the rest of us, there is, indeed, a commuter policy in effect. In return for giving up company paid move and home purchase, the east pilots got a commuter policy. If you were not so lazy, you might start by looking it up and see if it applies to you, when they close LAS/PHX?

 

[ALPO NO MO]

You can see how stupid those really are by reading the filing: http://www.planebuzz.com/

Do not, repeat, do not, call those cell phone numbers

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

OMG, holy crap, and good grief! As if US did not have enough trouble already (from fuel prices, to bad mgmt, alienated VFFs, QIK/SHARES, and many, many, other issues). I've been watching the pilot senoirity show from the sidelines and naiively believed that eventually cooler heads would prevail. I truly did not think that things would spin so out of control. Get it together people!

If there is still an airline a year from now - or however long it takes for the pilots to be integrated. (And that is becoming an ever larger "if"), will things ever cool down to the point where we can be sure that these emotions cannot affect the ability for a flight crew to operate as a team?

 

[CactusFlyr]

Agree completely.

What really stuns me is that the West pilots were gonna win anyway, since there's no legal support for East pilots' losing proposition that removing ALPA and forming a new union frees the East pilots of the binding arbitration decision.

When you're gonna win anyway, why engage in this type of conduct?

One thing is for certain: As a paying passenger, I'd never fly this airline again - too many pilots on both sides don't meet my personal standards for mental stability.

I've passed out copies of the .pdf file - it is certainly interesting reading.

Haven't you heard NIC is dead, EASTUS says so.

 

[Toothy Grin]

The baby has a smelly diaper - change it!

You won the war of pride and ego! Congrats, but you lose your respect in the industry with the public and many of those you fly with...hey don't worry you're feeling good about it, right? Selfish idiots! Next time either e or w pilots decide to do something like this again try to remember that it effects everyone in the company not just lil ol' you.

Most of the actions described in the legal brief are silly and with the two groups involved I didn't read anything that was that surprising. What is over the top is the lawsuit. A complete waste of money, time and resources that would've been better spent on making sure the pilot groups come together. Settle this out of court and do something that brings the work groups together...yes, there will be blips along the way, but keep pushing towards unity. Ever heard of taking the high road?

We can all pretty much rest assured that it is good by US. What airline would want to merge into this mess now?

Settle this out of court, keep it confidential so it remains win-win and move on. Get back to work....

 

[LD3]

How would YOU like to be on a jumpseat for a 4 hour flight while the captain and first officer, not talking to you of course, are discussing in a very contemptuous way you and your colleagues with many pejorative references to their pedigree? Do you think THAT is professional? Would YOU sit there for 4 hours and keep YOUR opinion to yourself while the pilots who were supposed to be operating the airplane weighed in with inflammatory, obscene invective aimed at you and your colleagues? (This actually happened on west metal PHX-PHL.)

Tell me you would just sit quietly and take it for 4 hours, keeping your opinion to yourself.

Is this something the flying public should be concerned about? I agree that listening to trash talk for four hours has to be tough, how long before someone talks back with their fists....

 

[EyeInTheSky]

You are a guest, regardless of the behavior of the host. You choose to request a jumpseat. It is one of many options available to you.

You seem to forget one very important thing -- the company OWNS that jumpseat not you. I have a feeling there will be a memo from Parker and Bular that reiterates that very fact. It will also have a big warning that turning down a fellow pilot on the jumpseat can be bad for your paycheck.

Later,
Eye

 

[flybynite]

I just read the pending litigation View PDF Here Sadly I'm losing a great deal of respect for the profession. I coached Little League years back and at age 12 those boys exhibited more maturity.

Thank God Boeing Boy got out.

They are acting more like a bunch of pre-teen girls.

 

[ClueByFour]

Specious crap. I suppose we're all expected to be very impressed with your insider status and knowledge of the jargon.

You drive the bus. I'll do what I do. When you have had this happen--like, say, dummy phone calls flooding a telecommunication facility in a manner which crosses state lines and actually have the feds bring criminal action against the perps (in that district, natch), let me know. In the meantime, I'd stick to what you know.

Jurors are bright enough to see patterns in phone calls that amount to harassment and abuse rather than a necessary call to their union. Of course, these same defendants can probably all be quoted with denials that USAPA is their union at all. If they don't consider it their union, why so many calls? Your argument doesn't pass the smell test, and juries have pretty sensitive noses. Preponderance of the evidence.

You make two large assumptions:

1. That it gets to a jury.

2. They still manage the contract that these clowns work under, correct?

I don't even think it passes the smell test, personally. I also know that if the feds saw enough to warrant a charge, the odds are heavy that they would have acted already and/or would have told the allegedly aggrieved party to wait until after the criminal complaint was brought, and ideally resolved. Seeham should know this. Think about it.

That presupposes that USAPA really wants to go to war with the west pilots. They don't.

It's tough to deny one's reason for existence, ne c'est pas?

They simply want the harassment to stop and when, against the advice of their own counsel, the west pilots continued their campaign against USAPA after asking them to cease and desist, they were left with little other choice than to go to court. USAPA is not about letting the "stupid stuff" go on so the west pilots can "bury themselves." They have work to do and just wish to have the space in which to do it.

If they don't have the technical acumen to deal with (judging by what's in the complaint) a relatively small number of calls from repeat numbers (or attract telco/IT providers that do), I'd be scared--since they presumably can't hire good help, and that's going to hurt come time to negotiate with the company. If they "need space," from this, then they are weaker than we all thought and really do only have the tyranny of the majority working for them.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It's tough to deny one's reason for existence, ne c'est pas?

Nic was the straw that broke the camel's back. It is one of the dozens of reasons that USAPA exists. There is little love lost between ALPA and even the west pilots. The west MEC chair (defendant McIlvenna) spearheaded a movement on the AWA property in previous years to remove ALPA and start an independent union.

The original URL for USAPA (www.decertifyalpa.org) was created and reserved in November, 2005, by a USAirways east pilot who saw this whole thing coming, thought the URL would be useful and wanted to keep it from being reserved by ALPA itself.

November, 2005, was a full 19 months before Nicolau ruled, and even predated any of the mediation/arbitration talks.

ALPA was on its way off this property for years. Nic simply provided an effective rallying cry.

As far as the raison d'etre (see, I can throw French cliches around, too) for USAPA, you should post as "CluelessByFour."

 

[EastUS]

You drive the bus. I'll do what I do.

"I'll do what I do" Which is...ummm...what? I've yet to see the slightest reasons, in any of your postings, for any assmption of actual and ready knowledge of..well....pretty much anything at any level. If you've some amazing credentials attendant to that "I'll do what I do"...I'm sure that all would be interested in the nature of the same. On the issue of accidental pistol discharges...you asserted yourself as essentially an expert gunfighter. When flying was involved..you were "right there" with a few hours of twin time..and a a hearty and fully comical "Wilco" to offer. If you've some actual competance at anything involving the law.....well...it'd at least be a refreshing change

ClueByFour: "I don't even think it passes the smell test, personally."

 

[dariencc]

In the meantime, I'd stick to what you know.

Great advise, Mr. Wilco. Roger. Check. Over and Out. Now perhaps you should find some telecommunications forum (or whatever you do) to expound on, and spare us your aviation wannabe prattle.

I also know that if the feds saw enough to warrant a charge, the odds are heavy that they would have acted already and/or would have told the allegedly aggrieved party to wait until after the criminal complaint was brought, and ideally resolved.

You also know? Well thanks for sharing then. In my innocence I actually thought that the Postal Inspectors might take more than a month or so to "act" in a criminal case, so thanks for straightening me out. And, yes, I have no doubt that they would have "told" USAPA to forgo their pursuit of injunctive relief in this case until after their complaint has been "ideally" resolved. :unsure:

It's tough to deny one's reason for existence, ne c'est pas?

Ne c'est pas? That must be French for Wilco, right?