ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week 5/22 to 5/29

[checksix]

If furloughs come is USAPA going to represent us fairly or throw us under the bus using DOH for furloughs?

So you're are suggesting that furloughing based on DOH is throwing the junior pilots under the bus? Last time I checked, furlough was based on seniority order, the airline business predicates their seniority list on DOH, therefore furloughing from the most junior pilot position is the standard procedure - there's no bus involved.

 

[BottomFeeder]

If the company would be facing a crippling number of dismissals, a bankruptcy judge would likely find it in the best interests of the creditors to relieve the company of that burden through the granting of an 1113 motion. I don't think the interests of the union rank nearly as high.

Expect the non-union list to be whittled away in say a month or maybe less. Easy enough to whittle away say 3 C/O and 3 F/O per base every week/weeks. BTW it will be random 😉

The place will be cleaned out way before BK.

 

[exB717Flyer]

while dissmissing the contained minimum fleet specifics...none of which exists out west.

Why do you say that when the Transition Agreement, Section II, paragraph 4(d) specifically sets the minimum number of aircraft out West? Selective memory?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

May 30, 2008

To All US Airways Pilots:

On April 18, 2008, the National Mediation Board certified that a majority of US Airways pilots elected to be represented by the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA).

In the context of an inter-union election, those who supported the non-prevailing union can frequently harbor hard feelings and strong emotions. It is not uncommon for these disappointed voters to prefer the status of a “Non-Member†agency fee payer to that of a “Full†membership in the new union. Nor is it uncommon for such disappointed voters to attempt to achieve through litigation what they could not achieve through the democratic process. While USAPA seeks the full participation of the US Airways pilot group, it acknowledges the right of pilots to voice their dissent in a lawful manner, and in a way that respects the rights of all pilots.

What USAPA will not tolerate, however, are any illegal actions by individuals or minority groups which are designed to undercut the democratic process, waste financial contributions of dues-paying members, hamper services due all US Airways pilots and create a hostile work environment; all through criminal misconduct.

Since the date of its certification on April 18, 2008, USAPA and individual US Airways pilots have been subjected to a concerted campaign of intimidation and sabotage, which has included the following: 1) The jamming of USAPA’s toll-free telephone line in order to hamper union services and impose costs on the Union; 2) false communications to USAPA’s safety line – the equivalent of maliciously triggering a fire alarm; 3) communications to US Airways pilots asserting that their “safety†will be jeopardized if they pay dues to USAPA; 4) malicious efforts to interfere with USAPA’s electronic communications, 5) jumpseat boycotts designed to interfere with pilots’ right to earn a living, and 6) interference with U.S. Mail facilities. Our attorneys have advised us that many of these acts are in violation of federal and/or North Carolina state criminal law.

USAPA is in possession of substantial documentary evidence confirming the existence of a concerted sabotage campaign. Initial written warnings to those first identified as responsible have either been ignored or met with disingenuous denials of responsibility. And, despite these warnings, the acts of criminal sabotage have continued.

Consequently, in defense of its members, their rights to unhampered union services and a fiscal responsibility to dues contributions, USAPA has determined that it has no choice but to take legal action.

Pursuant to a unanimous vote of the USAPA Pilot Board of Directors, on Friday, May 30, 2008, USAPA filed a lawsuit in the United States District Court for the Western District of North Carolina alleging violations of state and federal law.

Despite the provocation endured by USAPA’s representatives and members, the Union is acting in moderation. At this time, no criminal complaints have been filed, and the BPR has not sought Company disciplinary action against any pilot; a pungent move that the predecessor union did during the course of the recent election. The referenced lawsuit is a civil one, which seeks the reimbursement of USAPA’s damages and expenses along with injunctive relief enjoining the defendants from engaging in future criminal misconduct. Individual defendants may avoid further involvement in this litigation by paying their fair share of damages and expenses and refraining from further unlawful activity.

USAPA Leadership is under no illusion concerning the issues emanating from the recent NMB election and takes very seriously its responsibility to represent all US Airways pilots. Wherever you stand on the issues, we believe that the overwhelming majority of pilots feel that all pilots from the most senior to the most junior should be able to work in a hostility-free environment and have access to the services the union provides.

USAPA is committed to guarantee these basic principles to all US Airways pilots.

Sincerely,

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Looks like Leonidas LLC is about to run out of cash!

 

[fatherabraham]

Looks like Leonidas LLC is about to run out of cash!

Everyone hurry up and master card them 2 cents. 😛h34r:

 

[Pacemaker]

Airline headed for BK, concessions coming, furloughs, downgrades; doom & gloom over all.

No wonder you rustheads are so chipper; you're in your element again.

 

[checksix]

So that's what all those multiple lawsuit threats were about; their legal fund was actually a defendant fund. Well, I guess that's one way to spend it......

 

[nycbusdriver]

Suppose they don't pay dues. The union cannot fire anybody. Do you think they would try to sue the company to force them to fire someone? Who would the judge say must go first and what has past practice been with the previous union? How long do you think it will realistically take for the first (or all ) the pilots to be dismissed?

And suppose the airline does go into bankruptcy. I could see the closed shop provision as being quite persuasive in granting an 1113 motion to preserve the airline and hobble the "union" with one stone.

There are plenty of things to lose sleep over, but being one of over 2000 people to be fired en masse isn't one of them.

I agree. The union cannot fire anybody.

But, in light of the fact that the VP for Labor Relations, Al Hemenway, sent a letter to USAPA date May 15, 2008, outlining exactly how the company would proceed to a termination for non-payment at the request of USAPA, I don't think the union really need to worry about how things will proceed.

The company offered this letter to USAPA without request (to the best of my knowledge.) Why would Hemenway send a letter dealing with the termination procedures if the company wasn't on board with it?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Didn't even realize this was happening, but it seems that some disgruntled pilots are doing a harassment campaign against USAPA doing lots of electronic things to disrupt operations. The warning letters didn't stop it, so USAPA filed a civil suit today in the Federal District Court for Western North Carolina seeking damages. So far, USAPA has shown remarkable restraint in not asking the federal prosecutor to take up criminal charges (which could still happen.)

So...I guess the lawsuits have indeed started.

Got cash? Lots of it?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Expect the non-union list to be whittled away in say a month or maybe less. Easy enough to whittle away say 3 C/O and 3 F/O per base every week/weeks. BTW it will be random 😉

The place will be cleaned out way before BK.

It's really not the "non-union" list that will be whittled away. No one has to join the union. More precisely the non-paying list will be whittled away. I suspect there won't be a lot of whittling though. It will take less than a handful of dismissals for the rest to "get religion" and send in their germane fees. And, I suspect, even the handful of dismissals will be back when they realize the futility of falling on their sword and request a reinstatement in return for payment of back charges. Personally, I think USAPA will support their return. They don't want anybody fired; they may just need to make a point.

 

[checksix]

And, I suspect, even the handful of dismissals will be back when they realize the futility of falling on their sword and request a reinstatement in return for payment of back charges. Personally, I think USAPA will support their return. They don't want anybody fired; they may just need to make a point.

Unfortunately, for those involved, it doesn't work like that. If you are dismissed you are gone. The best you can hope for would be to be rehired once hiring re-commences.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Unfortunately, for those involved, it doesn't work like that. If you are dismissed you are gone. The best you can hope for would be to be rehired once hiring re-commences.

Interesting. Over the years we've seen pilots do some pretty serious, stupid things and get fired, then see them back after the union intervened on their behalf (which is the union's job, of course.) But getting fired over this is a "no do over" thing? I'm surprised, even though nothing around here should surprise me after 29 years.

 

[checksix]

Why do you say that when the Transition Agreement, Section II, paragraph 4(d) specifically sets the minimum number of aircraft out West? Selective memory?

We both have min. hulls, it is selective memory in that case.

 

[checksix]

Interesting. Over the years we've seen pilots do some pretty serious, stupid things and get fired, then see them back after the union intervened on their behalf (which is the union's job, of course.) But getting fired over this is a "no do over" thing? I'm surprised, even though nothing around here should surprise me after 29 years.

Look at what they got fired over - they messed up on the job. Yes, in this case the union will and can save their employment; they screwed up on the job. Screw the union over - then who is going to save you? Hire a lawyer.............. FWIW, ALPA was the same way.