US Pilots Labor Thread 7/7-7/14 - NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Metroyet]

I rest my case......

Try actually answering my question. "Honestly, What did you actually think the West was going to do"?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not that it matters until there's a vote on a tentative agreement, but I think there are well under 3,000 actuve pilots on the East side, since you can't just take the seniority number of the junior active pilot. Inactive pilots between that piliot and the #1 pilot have to be subtracted - those on medical, military, personal leaves, those retired but still on the list, etc. I haven't counted lately, but I suspect there's 400 or more East pilots just on medical.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Try actually answering my question. "Honestly, What did you actually think the West was going to do"?

After the roadshow videos? = Continue to conduct yourselves in like fashion, so..no surprises there. The only surprise for me was the wholesale willingness of your bunch to kiss the shoe soles of management and happily side with them at every possible turn. Even if towards a portion of the pilot group that you detest..that's utterly insane behavior. This brings me to the following = I've a question or two as well: Given that the west group has entirely sided with the company's positions against any/all union actions...and gleefully done so at every turn...well..What possible basis is there to even imagine that your group would EVER be of the slightest future value in opposing company abuses of the pilot group?..and from what bizarre recesses of The Twilight Zone itself does the west pull forth fantasies about obtaining "an industry leading contract"? What would that be based on?....The stated west notion of crossing picket lines without a moment's delay?..Perhaps the demonstrated desire to (insert hysterical laughter) stand up to management, in favor of even any or all portions of the work group? Is it to be magically assumed that, given the nic gift, that all of you would suddenly and completely reverse the actually demonstrated character that's been shown thus far? I think not. My honest appraisal is that, in the very best case, the west group would amount to dead weight to drag along. In what's clearly been the actually demonstrated norm = active opponents and company sycophants.

 

[A320 Driver]

Kind of hypocritical of you. I do remember you waving the USAPA flag when the Nic came out and using them as a threat if the west didn't compromise.

You got your wish.

And here we are. No one West looked for a solution after the Nic came out. You didn't have to. You won. Pilots with months of seniority went ahead of those with decades of service. Here is USAPA in all it's glory.

How you liking it so far????

A320 Driver :down:

 

[aquagreen73s]

And here we are. No one West looked for a solution after the Nic came out.

Kinda hard to speak when you're being shouted at and threatened by an angry mob. Remember the bus trip to Herndon? You all were proud of the fact that the West MEC had to leave via a back exit that day. Guess you really showed the West.

 

[Phoenix]

You've never yet presented so much as the slightest portion of ANY logical "attack", or even reasoned argument of ANY form....unless I've entirely missed the presumed subtleties within the continuously looped, one-liners.

OK, No "flowery language" in response: Bluntly put, and certainly appropriate to this, your latest little enigma = WTF are you actually babbling about?..Seriously?

I think it had something to do with how great ALPA FPL was... again... or maybe ALPA's righteous picket line express gate agreement initiative with the TSA. I hear ALPA is also going to hire Starbucks to give out specialty coffees too for pilots using the express lanes set up by the TSA. Cross with class.

 

[EastUS]

I hear ALPA is also going to hire Starbucks to give out specialty coffees too for pilots using the express lanes set up by the TSA. Cross with class.

Awww nuts! You mean that alpa was finally going to provide us with at least a Starbucks for all those countless millions given up in pension funds?..not to mention the joy of nic? Sheesh!...How very short-sighted I've been...sigh. We really shoulda' kept them then

 

[Megasnoop]

What's known so far:
1) The west contingent was/is adamantly attempting the total destruction of the union.
2) Most all west posters have clearly stated that they'd cheerfully and immediately cross any USAPA picket line.
3) They've always sided with the company in any union vs company disputes, going so far as to heap ridicule on union responses to the company's earlier abuses of Captain's Authority via the "fuel school" BS.
4) Zero west participation, much less ANY help, has ever been present for addressing any/all greivances, at least that I'm aware of.
5) The west is both adamant and enthusiastic about wanting to see a complete company victory within the forthcoming LOA disputes on the east.
6) The west is routinely denying even the simplest professional courtesy of jumpseat transportation to east pilots.
7) The west, not at all satisfied with higher pay rates and an east-given share of prior profit sharing...even seeks to see what they think they could even possibly steal from east contract payments of the $70 million due the east only, and based entirely on prior east sacrifices.

The list goes on, but that's at least a brief thumbnail sketch.

You got them pegged, East. So much anonymous chat and now the anonymous “facts†web site from obvious East ALPA-Phyles.

1 They started that campaign before ALPA got canned. It was started by their last MEC Chairman.

2 And some of our own have said that on this chat, like JS and DE. Now DH, LS, CM have their own anonymous disinformation web site.

3 Fuel school, the USA-Today ad. The co$t: $75,000. The impact on Parker: priceless.

4 They did help us in the Count 1 (furlough out of seniority) arbitration, but that was based on their own self interest. A couple of their pilots supplied us with important info in the reduced hours arbitration. But those guys only helped if we didn’t identify them. They didn’t want the hassle of being labeled collaborators even though that grievance benefitted West, not East.

5 They don’t understand the concept of a rising tide lifts all boats. For them, a LOA84 loss means the east rank and file will abandon DOH in favor of the pot of fools gold at the end of the Kirby rainbow. Another thing West havent thought about is how a win in the Large RJ arbitration could play out. I doubt an arbitrator could rule that LCC has to CX long-term contracts for 17 RJs. We might not even want that. But the leverage there (I’d better shut up).

6 While our C/Os continue to show professionalism and let them ride.

7 You got guys like nic4us who was so uninformed of their own contract he claimed they had a “me too†clause, allowing them to share in something we negotiated in return for LOA93, long before the merger announced.

Now cleardirect moaning about how USAPA leadership has only been out to PHX once. Lets see, LGA and BOS are larger bases and we’ve only been there for one meeting. With only 17 MIGS in LAS, does it make any sense to attend a local meeting there? To attend a local meting, you got to be asked. Invites come from the BPRs, not from non-members who cant attend the meeting anyway.

But wait. Using usapa’s defense from the Addington remedies. What happened before usapa was certified does not matter.

Thats a 2-edged sword, clear. The Wake ruled what happened before didn’t matter and he wouldn’t let it into court. Now your trying to make up a conspiracy theory for damages based on what happened before USAPA. You cant have it both ways. Neither can Wake.

I will cross the picket line if USAPA calls a strike for a DOH contract.

No surprise there, DE.

 

[prechilill]

Kinda hard to speak when you're being shouted at and threatened by an angry mob. Remember the bus trip to Herndon? You all were proud of the fact that the West MEC had to leave via a back exit that day. Guess you really showed the West.

Selective memory... They remember what they want to remember, and if it doesn't seem right they simply revise it to suit their needs.

 

[prechilill]

Yea and we wish "Project Zanzibar" happened also, life under LOA 93 is almost over, by the way I am sitting to the left in the top 370. I really don't care if we make it or not. Just hope you like doing some thing else with your last 25.

Can you please provide the link to the SEC filing for project Zanzibar? Thanks. (Hint: It doesn't exist!)

 

[HPDriver]

And here we are. No one West looked for a solution after the Nic came out. You didn't have to. You won. Pilots with months of seniority went ahead of those with decades of service. Here is USAPA in all it's glory.

How you liking it so far????

A320 Driver :down:

Status quo.

For me it means not having to fly FARs.

What's it mean for you?

 

[luvthe9]

Put Buying Gains Traction on US Airways Group, Inc.
7/10/2009 2:32 PM
permanent link


Keywords: LCC


Option traders have taken a skeptical stance toward US Airways Group, Inc. (LCC) during the past week, with speculators on the Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE) and the International Securities Exchange (ISE) buying to open 9,013 puts during this time frame. By contrast, just 829 calls were purchased.

Short sellers are also piling on with fresh bearish bets. During the past month, short interest on LCC surged by 93.7%. In fact, the number of shares sold short jumped by 47.2% during just the most recent reporting period.

It might be premature to chalk this up to pre-earnings speculation, because LCC isn't scheduled to hit the earnings spotlight until July 23 (after the expiration of July-dated options). Instead, it might be reasonable to assume that traders are simply placing their bets on a continuation of the stock's dismal price action.

Specifically, LCC has lost an eye-popping 72.1% of its value year-to-date. In recent months, this underperformance has been highlighted by the stock's 10-day and 20-day moving averages. These short-term trendlines haven't been bested on a daily closing basis since May 6.

Despite the recent rush of put buying, bearish sentiment is hardly at peak levels. LCC's Schaeffer's put/call open interest ratio (SOIR) of 0.51 ranks in the 33rd annual percentile, suggesting that there's still some optimism left to unwind. As the remaining bullish holdouts capitulate to the skeptics' camp, look for LCC's nosedive to continue.



HOPE YOU ALL ENJOY THE NIC WHEN YOUR ON THE STREET THANKS TO AMERICA WEST MANAGEMENT. :down: kEEP UP THE GOOD WORK TEMPE. HEY FREEDOM SPIN THIS

 

[nycbusdriver]

Not that it matters until there's a vote on a tentative agreement, but I think there are well under 3,000 actuve pilots on the East side, since you can't just take the seniority number of the junior active pilot. Inactive pilots between that piliot and the #1 pilot have to be subtracted - those on medical, military, personal leaves, those retired but still on the list, etc. I haven't counted lately, but I suspect there's 400 or more East pilots just on medical.

Jim

And somehow the west pilots don't go on medical, military, or personal leaves?

Their 1700 to 1800 are all active?

If you can suspect 400 or more east pilots are out on medical, can I suspect a similar percent of west pilots are out, also?

 

[hp_fa]

HOPE YOU ALL ENJOY THE NIC WHEN YOUR ON THE STREET THANKS TO AMERICA WEST MANAGEMENT. :down: kEEP UP THE GOOD WORK TEMPE. HEY FREEDOM SPIN THIS

I'm not one to waive banners for management, but Luv you have to admit that this is the best management team you have seen in the last 10 years. After all, they haven't (figuratively) caused you to see the inside of a bankruptcy court, at least yet anyway. My point is simple. Stop pretending they are the worst you have ever seen because you have seen this before. At least the West folks haven't seen the bankruptcy court since the early '90s

 

[Megasnoop]

And somehow the west pilots don't go on medical, military, or personal leaves? Their 1700 to 1800 are all active? If you can suspect 400 or more east pilots are out on medical, can I suspect a similar percent of west pilots are out, also?

NYC, speaking of personal leaves, they can forecast where future cuts will be. LCC asked for 150 East F/A voluntary leaves. They got them fairly quick. Their asking for 400 West F/A leaves. So far, few takers. 150/400? Any guess who gets more cuts?

Well, there you go. Get called on a misstatement of fact, so let's reframe the question (rather than answer it) to make it seem true.

Thats about all they got, NYC. Math-challenged, intentional or unintentional.

Why? I've got two and a half decades to do something else. Who I feel sorry for are the captains on the East who magnanimously supported your DOH crusade, only to find themselves having been lied to by their own copilots, in ways that were far worse than any management.

East C/Os are showing true unity and unionism. "Lied to by their own copilots?" Whatever.

How's that DOH coming? How's that "immediate" joint contract coming? How's life under LOA 93? You may think it's worth it, but I hardly doubt that many of the fellas sitting to your left have the appetite or the patience to assist you in your failed crusade while at the same time making $40-$60k less than ALK, JBLU, CAL, DAL, etc. So much has been wasted on the intractable and unreasonable F/Os on the East. Management really screwed up. Doug should have let the creditors get what they wanted in Judge Mitchell's courtroom: let 'em liquidate. The entire industry would have been better off as evidenced by USAPA's existence.

Ok, hows NIC coming? Timeline-wise your no closer to it than May 5, 2007. One legal battle won on your side. Others to follow.

How's your "immediate" contract coming? You know, the one that the ALPA-USAPA conspiracy took away from you.

Ah, the old $40-$60K pay gap. Even the companys "best" kirby offer fell $20-$40K short of ALK, JBLU, CAL, DAL, etc.

Mitchell was never going to let East go under. At least thats what your own Merger Attorney thought. With no merger, there would be no East OR West. Why cant we just let that debate go? We'll never agree. Its back and forth, no way to resolve it. Wasted ban-width.