US Pilots Labor Thread 7/7-7/14 - NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[traderjake]

Whenever any individual person or group shows me "who they are"...I believe them."

Immoral and unethical.

Like when they try to steal another man's job while hiding behind DOH and then don't honor binding arbitration agreements they made.

The former Piedmont pilots who flipped are the biggest hypocrites of all.

 

[EastUS]

Immoral and unethical.

Indeed trader, as you've previously stated how eagerly you would cross a picket line, as I recall even to leaving hastily made "footprints" on anyone's "back". I'll stick with my observation: "Whenever any individual person or group shows me "who they are"...I believe them." There are some who's notions as to what's "immoral", "hypocritical" and/or "unethical" I can simply have precious little, logical concern for.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Pop quiz:

The October bid shows #3408 as the last active pilot on the east.

How many are on the west? About 1700? 1800?

Question one: Explain what "half" means.

Question two: Show how the west is actually half of the total LCC pilot group. Show your work.

Explain what entering into, and agreeing to Binding Arbitration means.

Show your work.

 

[aquagreen73s]

No I mean ALL of us and pretty much thanks to YOUR management thats running this airline into the ground, most of the east pilots carreers are about over in several years anyway I do feel bad for young kids out west if this place tanks!!

Why? I've got two and a half decades to do something else. Who I feel sorry for are the captains on the East who magnanimously supported your DOH crusade, only to find themselves having been lied to by their own copilots, in ways that were far worse than any management. How's that DOH coming? How's that "immediate" joint contract coming? How's life under LOA 93? You may think it's worth it, but I hardly doubt that many of the fellas sitting to your left have the appetite or the patience to assist you in your failed crusade while at the same time making $40-$60k less than ALK, JBLU, CAL, DAL, etc. So much has been wasted on the intractable and unreasonable F/Os on the East. Management really screwed up. Doug should have let the creditors get what they wanted in Judge Mitchell's courtroom: let 'em liquidate. The entire industry would have been better off as evidenced by USAPA's existence.

 

[luvthe9]

Why? I've got two and a half decades to do something else. Who I feel sorry for are the captains on the East who magnanimously supported your DOH crusade, only to find themselves having been lied to by their own copilots, in ways that were far worse than any management. How's that DOH coming? How's that "immediate" joint contract coming? How's life under LOA 93? You may think it's worth it, but I hardly doubt that many of the fellas sitting to your left have the appetite or the patience to assist you in your failed crusade while at the same time making $40-$60k less than ALK, JBLU, CAL, DAL, etc. So much has been wasted on the intractable and unreasonable F/Os on the East. Management really screwed up. Doug should have let the creditors get what they wanted in Judge Mitchell's courtroom: let 'em liquidate. The entire industry would have been better off as evidenced by USAPA's existence.

Yea and we wish "Project Zanzibar" happened also, life under LOA 93 is almost over, by the way I am sitting to the left in the top 370. I really don't care if we make it or not. Just hope you like doing some thing else with your last 25.

 

[traderjake]

There are some who's notions as to what's "immoral", "hypocritical" and/or "unethical" I can simply have precious little, logical concern for.

Translation - There is no logical defense for my position so I won't bother.

Smothering it in flowery language and smiley faces doesn't fool anyone.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I really don't care if we make it or not. Just hope you like doing some thing else with your last 25.

I bet there's plenty of business representing the ex's of East pilots . . .

 

[EastUS]

Translation - There is no logical defense for my position so I won't bother.

Smothering it in flowery language and smiley faces doesn't fool anyone.

You've never yet presented so much as the slightest portion of ANY logical "attack", or even reasoned argument of ANY form....unless I've entirely missed the presumed subtleties within the continuously looped, one-liners.

OK, No "flowery language" in response: Bluntly put, and certainly appropriate to this, your latest little enigma = WTF are you actually babbling about?..Seriously?

 

[traderjake]

Indeed trader, as you've precross a picket lineiously stated how eagerly you would cross a picket line, as I recal even to leaving hastily made "footprints" on anyone's "back".

I will cross the picket line if USAPA calls a strike for a DOH contract.

This isn't Junior High School. I'm not jumping off the cliff just because the majority of USAPA supporters want to. I'm also not going to be coerced by a bunch of school yard bullies.

What's your point, that I'm not a mindless lemming? That I think for myself?

 

[EastUS]

What's your point, that I'm not a mindless lemming and that I think for myself?

"that I think for myself?" Not to worry, as that notion never even crossed my mind in this case

 

[hp_fa]

I will cross the picket line if USAPA calls a strike for a DOH contract.

Don't worry, I can't see that being a reasonable possibility after the injunction is issued.

I also have a new train of thought that I have been tossing around in my head and that is that if there were to be a merger then, as far as West pilots are concerned, USAPA could not even attempt to negotiate a seniority list with the other union that fails to comply with Nicolau as far as a USAPA seniority list would be concerned. I believe that anything else would include a very fast trip back to Judge Wake's courtroom.

 

[EastUS]

You may think it's worth it, but I hardly doubt that many of the fellas sitting to your left have the appetite or the patience to assist you in your failed crusade ...

Well...given that you're not one of us that's sitting in that east left seat, and apparently, simply can't even grasp the very concept of not instantly selling others out for your own selfish gain....what can be said here?

 

[Megasnoop]

Notwithstanding all the West glee over the latest addington hearing, I think we can put to rest that USAPA is stalling and running up the bill. Partially paraphrased, with permission from USAPA's latest non-confidential update,

USAPA was ready for an August trial on "damages." It was Addington, et al, requesting the postponement. They wanted October, the judge gave them January, and indicated he might push it further into 2010. Is he waiting to see how the appeal goes? Or busting our chops, forcing us to present a NIC contract or be further in his wrath? I think we all realize the company and USAPA are still miles apart. You cant get to additional costs until you agree on a costing model. During the trial both sides stipulated and all West witnesses admitted, USAPA was not stalling. We'll continue to not stall, but if the company doesn't want a TA, there wont be a TA to vote on.

All I can say is if you have the money to go on this ALPA conspiracy wild goose chase, go for it. But dont blame us for running up the bill.

Meanwhile Wake "blessed" a discovery schedule that he will control.

Our motion for summary judgement was dismissed, but without prejudice. We'll refile after discovery, I'm sure. To win summary judgment, we'll need to establish there is no dispute over material facts. We'll see how the judge reacts after discovery.

 

[hp_fa]

USAPA was ready for an August trial on "damages." It was Addington, et al, requesting the postponement. They wanted October, the judge gave them January, and indicated he might push it further into 2010. Is he waiting to see how the appeal goes? Or busting our chops, forcing us to present a NIC contract or be further in his wrath?

The Court has said the following in conjunction with the post-injunction proceedings. He is not waiting for any appeal....

"And when we finished the liability trial I was of the mind to just finish this up. So that's why we set the schedule. But now that these things are coming out I am beginning to realize that this case is now different. This is now a damage case. It's not an injunction case anymore. And the need and the justification for moving expeditiously in an injunction case really is diminished in a way that I didn't focus on as much as I should have. And it's leading me to think that I have got to step back and not put you, both sides, in the position of trying to litigate a damage case on somewhat similar track to a time-urgent injunction case."

July 7th Transcript, Page 34, Lines 11-21

Our motion for summary judgement was dismissed, but without prejudice. We'll refile after discovery, I'm sure. To win summary judgment, we'll need to establish there is no dispute over material facts. We'll see how the judge reacts after discovery.

Correct.

 

[Edward]

Some of you are getting out of line with comments. Again do NOT make it about each other.

THINK before you post. Every one who posts is considered warned. Time off is waiting for those who can't or will not follow rules