US Pilots Labor Thread 8/20-8/27- NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[FL430]

I just flew 3 days with a Simulator Check Airman who said I was in the top 1% of First Officers he's seen so you'd be wrong.
Not saying much, I have flown with weak check airmen. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that if that is true then I would commend you as well. I always appreciate a job well done.
You would remember flying with a First Officer who said DOH is not fair and that USAPA is unethical and incompetent.

You are right, I would remember a F/O making those statements. You would be in the minority in Charlotte I do believe. I personally believe in DOH. But you know what they say about opinions.
I cant say that I disagree on your USAPA statement either.

 

[Megasnoop]

FL430, on that 75% vote, in the privacy of their own homes, as expected our C/Os, wide-body FOs and line holders supported the junior FOs. Must be a hard concept for west to grasp.

And for the 90% of C/Os who fly with Jake and want the Kirby, the other half of the C/Os disagree.
"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical." Yogi Berra

They have a full proposal on the table for a while it's called the Kirby proposal

And we have a full demand on the table, it’s called the USAPA demand. The offer/demand aren’t even close.

Trader, What vote? If your talking about a new contract, not for a while. I see no real movement from the company for a long time. Any new contract would be for at least 5 yrs., from what they have brought to the table so far we would all be foolish to bite. Parity plus 3%, sorry, they would need to move closer to the snapback rates. 100 plus hrs a month, no way, rsv calling for rls after trip on last day, no way, max sick bank 500 hrs, your kidding, putting the NIC aside for a moment, the company needs to come alittle stronger for any new contract to have a chance, even when the Nic is it.

Worse than that, Cubfan. The Kirby was nothing more than a yawn pay raise with the worst of both contract working conditions. It wasn't even vacation parity until 4 years, since the company would phase in East vacations to West parity. It also gave less pay/credit for vacation days from 3:40 to 3 hours/day, so their current 31 max is worth less. The big problem with the vacation phase-in is it keeps pilots on furlough. Go to vacation parity immediately and most get recalled. The Kirby pretty much got our FARs and our 5 hr/day. We got their PBS. We got briefed on that. It doesn't honor seniority (like in DOH) for bidding. It improves efficiency so more furloughs because Kirby had NO (REPEAT: NO) minimum number of aircraft. It’s pay parity for East and West but probably parity for the company too. More furloughs, greed setting in to 100hours. Overall a financial wash. No more money and the way it’s worded, not a single recall generated by it. Last, it was non-negotiable. The only thing that will get any movement from labor side of the table is losing both the appeal and the LOA93/84 pay arbitration. Even then, we still can’t agree with the company on costing models, much less rates. I get tired of all this we’re losing $30K a year. The Kirby eliminated both the $70M bonus and the LOA83/84 pay rates, stuck us with 21 days vacation until 4 years and left us with FARs. Voting for that with or without NIC?

 

[nic4us]

And you know what they say about remembering other pilots you fly with - you usually remember the ones that are really, really good and the ones that are really, really bad. I am sure that I already know which category that you belong in.

Here is yet another topic on which we differ.

I never remember the good pilots. The trips are easy and uneventful. We enjoy each others company for our brief time together, get the job done and go home.

I seldom remember the bad pilots, just as soon forget them, unless they are so bad they warrant a no fly, and to date that list is empty.

The pilots I remember and would prefered to have not met, are the uncouth slobs, who blow out a (,,, what was in that burrito you ate yesterday?,,,, damn, is there a dead animal on this flightdeck?,,,,you really need to see a doctor!!,,,) colon bomb, that calls for the doning of O2 masks and a smoke removal checklist.

 

[LSS]

I get tired of all this we’re losing $30K a year. The Kirby eliminated both the $70M bonus and the LOA83/84 pay rates, stuck us with 21 days vacation until 4 years and left us with FARs. Voting for that with or without NIC?

Never, never, never!

 

[hp_fa]

The first paragraph from the AFA forum is the truth and it applies to all unions, not just AFA, ALPA, USAPA or any other labor union.

Link

 

[cubfan]

FL430, on that 75% vote, in the privacy of their own homes, as expected our C/Os, wide-body FOs and line holders supported the junior FOs. Must be a hard concept for west to grasp.

And for the 90% of C/Os who fly with Jake and want the Kirby, the other half of the C/Os disagree.
"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical." Yogi Berra


And we have a full demand on the table, it’s called the USAPA demand. The offer/demand aren’t even close.



Worse than that, Cubfan. The Kirby was nothing more than a yawn pay raise with the worst of both contract working conditions. It wasn't even vacation parity until 4 years, since the company would phase in East vacations to West parity. It also gave less pay/credit for vacation days from 3:40 to 3 hours/day, so their current 31 max is worth less. The big problem with the vacation phase-in is it keeps pilots on furlough. Go to vacation parity immediately and most get recalled. The Kirby pretty much got our FARs and our 5 hr/day. We got their PBS. We got briefed on that. It doesn't honor seniority (like in DOH) for bidding. It improves efficiency so more furloughs because Kirby had NO (REPEAT: NO) minimum number of aircraft. It’s pay parity for East and West but probably parity for the company too. More furloughs, greed setting in to 100hours. Overall a financial wash. No more money and the way it’s worded, not a single recall generated by it. Last, it was non-negotiable. The only thing that will get any movement from labor side of the table is losing both the appeal and the LOA93/84 pay arbitration. Even then, we still can’t agree with the company on costing models, much less rates. I get tired of all this we’re losing $30K a year. The Kirby eliminated both the $70M bonus and the LOA83/84 pay rates, stuck us with 21 days vacation until 4 years and left us with FARs. Voting for that with or without NIC?

I agree, I didn't even know about the vaca. phase in, probably got stuck on parity plus 3% and saw a 3.00/hr raise for me times 72.0/hrs month=216.00/month and quit reading. I thought the Kirby was always a concessionary contract at best.

 

[hp_fa]

Don’t take offense, hp. I never claimed what happened. I said your version differd from USAPAs. It does. Reread, Seems there’s some conflicting info here. Either hp missed it or the USAPA release was bias. The transcript will tell. Hp said..., USAPA said,... So either (quoting USAPA) "the judge expressed concern about whether there was even any legal basis for awarding attorneys fees." or he didn't.

No offense taken. I agree that there are differences in how I presented the information and how USAPA characterized the information. I will be happy to have folks determine whose version is closer to what they believe is the truth if and when the transcript becomes available.

Going back to February 2004, you wrote literally hundreds of biased chat posts critical of U/USAirways, long before the merger announced. What was your interest, connection? Now your just reporting the facts. You opined about PHL LEC Rep recall a year before the merger. You argued with an east pilot you called chipster. What was your source for that kind of inhouse info?

“I think that sums it up. But the Chipster is upset because the guys from PA have more power then the guys from NYC and the Chipster only wants to deal with the powerful people of the world. I sure hope the Chipster has a hack license pending because doing it his way or the highway can definately lead to the highway.hp. August 2004â€
Perhaps there will fail to be a quorm. I can't see the RC4 sitting at the same table with USA320Pilot.We'll find out more later. Sep 10 2004
If the RC4 have the power they do, why do they need to remove the one member of the NC? They can override his vote by just not allowing a TA to go out. Or, is it true that they fully intend to let any negotiated TA to go out as they had apparently promised their constituents? In that case I could see why they want at least someone representing their opinion on the NC. Sep 2004
Us Airways Negotiations: 12 Angry Men I don't know Freshwater or the other members of RC4, but if they have your panties in that tight a wad they are candidates for Holiday cards from me this December. You see, I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around.
BTW, before you send in a complaint about me insulting you, name me one other person I treat the same as you. You can't. Even if I disagree with them, I respect them and their views. If I lived in Wisconsin I would buy you a big block of cheese to go with your whine. Sep 2004

Ineresting info, like right out of some disgruntled AAA source. 5-year non-stop critical of anything/everything “U� I don’t get it.

Interesting stuff. None of us would get to say those kinds of things here anymore and I include them here just to make reference to what you speak of,

First, I categorically deny any inside information. I never had it. If you wish you can go back through the complete exchange of views leading up to those posts and you find the information that formed the basis of my comments. It is all here on these forums.

Second, over time I have repeatedly made comments to the effect that the pilots should keep there internal issues on a more private forum so that outsiders, such as me, don't have access to their discussions. For one reason or another they choose to post here. Fine. The rest of us then get to read the comment, create opinions and even post responses if we choose.

Third, the individual that you referred to (I am not using that phrase because I don't want to see the cornfield) and I had issues. So did others. It was my opinion that person's style and writings were controversial and I often disagreed with that person and posted accordingly. As I said all of the information that I had available was from this forum, or sometimes further public Internet searches. I had no inside information from the AAA MEC, but much of their information was carried onto this board and then in the public domain.

Fourth, I came to US Aviation's forums while still a working FA at AWA. As I recall my original reason for coming here was the FA forums because they were also members of AFA and they were having an interesting time with then management. Eventually I started reading the pilot's thread and eventually I began to write on the pilots threads. I see nothing wrong with that.

BTW, where did you get your legal training and experience? While working in PHX or during your 10 years living Laurel, MD? Somehow, your earlier posts don’t hint at it. Your legal credentials don’t appear until you start posting on the NIC/DFR. And yes, on a long Trans-Atlantic layover, I have time to waste.

As for Laurel, MD, I had been stationed at Ft. Meade and that is where I got out of the service in 1979. In 1983 we moved to Phoenix. In 1986 I went to an ABA-accredited legal assistant school here in Phoenix and was immediately hired and worked in that field for ten years. (I should save this post for a resume.)

Again, hp, I never said you were incorrect, not telling the truth, just the two versions didn't match. I don't have inside sources to get transcripts. I guess the doubt will just linger until the transcripts are out. Your the one keeping this alive. Based on your 100s of anti-U as a corporation and anti-East labor posts going back long before the merger, I think we all have to question anything you write, if we get two differing versions.

Feel free to question anything I write or even use the ignore feature. Those are both your rights. However, on the legal stuff and the interpretations of everything I would opine that my reading of the various issues has been far more correct that either SSM&P or USAPA. I think the results to date bear that out.

 

[traderjake]

So you say that 90% of the clt captains would vote according to how you say they will vote but yet you have not flown with even 90% of the charlotte captains.

I reported the opinions of the Captains I fly with. I never said what you claim.

If you don't believe me or can't comprehend what I'm saying, so be it

 

[Phoenix]

To Recap:

So you say that 90% of the clt captains would vote according to how you say they will vote but yet you have not flown with even 90% of the charlotte captains. I hope you dont bet with money or you would be poor very quickly.

It is possible he has flown with only one or two because he has enough seniority to bid a pairing with like-minded pilots month after month. Who could blame him, except of course for extrapolating a skewed sample..

 

[traderjake]

It is possible he has flown with only one or two because he has enough seniority to bid a pairing with like-minded pilots month after month. Who could blame him, except of course for extrapolating a skewed sample..

I am senior but I bid to fly weekends and do a lot of SAP so I fly with someone different almost every trip. I don't bid
with or around anyone.

You don't believe me, fine. The only sample that matters is a contract vote.

 

[Phoenix]

I am senior but I bid to fly weekends and do a lot of SAP so I fly with someone different almost every trip. I don't bid
with or around anyone.

You don't believe me, fine. The only sample that matters is a contract vote.

Loosen up a little. Life under ALPA wasn't half as good as all the legends now purport it to have been. ... well unless maybe your were Chris BB, Butvick, or Jack... "those were the days! my friend, we thought they'ld never end!" "We would fight and never loose.. those were the days!"


Those were the Days!