US Pilots Labor Thread 4/7 to 4/14- ALL US Pilots Labor Issues Here

[nic4us]

Jumpseat denial still happening is it? Let me give you the flight attendant's point of view.

Witnessing this happen even once was too much. It is actually nauseating ( and I do mean physically).

I am mystified so someone please explain it to me. How does it feel to deliberately leave someone at the gate

We are respectful of the Captain's authority, but we also are not eunuchs. We have been and will continue to be resourceful when it comes to helping any commuters of any stripe when the Captain won't.

Do not know how it feels because I have never denied, but I could Imagine it might feel much like you descibed it as a witness.

Be careful if your resourcefullness overides that Captains decision.

 

[nostradamus]

Be careful if your resourcefullness overides that Captains decision.

You west pilots deal with flight attendant opinions much different than the East pilots.

America West HP-851 from Calgary,AB (Canada) to Phoenix,AZ

 

[sharonstoneseat]

Do not know how it feels because I have never denied, but I could Imagine it might feel much like you descibed it as a witness.

Be careful if your resourcefullness overides that Captains decision.

I do appreciate your concern. I am respectful of authority but also have done my research on everyone's limitations.

But again, Thank you

 

[cleardirect]

You west pilots deal with flight attendant opinions much different than the East pilots.

America West HP-851 from Calgary,AB (Canada) to Phoenix,AZ

You may want to learn the rest of the story before commenting.

 

[EastUS]

Be careful if your resourcefullness overides that Captains decision.

Agreed. Given the "maturity" level that's truly required for anyone to deny a jumpseater a ride, one might reasonably expect a full-blown temper tantrum from any such "Captain"

There might even be tears......

 

[ussnark]

I would think that anyone with experience in the airline industry (those for whom their current airline is not the only airline for whom they have ever worked) would know that you go with the first airline that hires you and then you may choose to move on after that.

Reason? Because you believed in DOH.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Nostradamus has a new link to play with now.

 

[Waketurbulence]

I feel it's best just to follow the parameters of what's proper within the realm of supposed professionals in the workplace. I'll not deny any west person for that reason...and, for personal reasons; I simply refuse to sink to a level that low....period.

eastus,
Although your opinions on this board stink worse than a usapa meeting, I actually agree with your post above. Having someone that lacks integrity and is in my opinion lower than someone that crossed a picket line sitting behind me is not something I look forard to when I go to work, HOWEVER, I have not, and will not deny a jumpseat to anyone even if that person is trying to steal my job. I set the rules to ALL in the flightdeck before the door closes and so far have not had a problem.

As far as the alleged denials mentioned earlier, the same thing happened to a couple of West pilots as well so it is not just your problem, it is our problem.

 

[nic4us]

You west pilots deal with flight attendant opinions much different than the East pilots.

America West HP-851 from Calgary,AB (Canada) to Phoenix,AZ

Century IX Quatrain 47

"The undersigned to an infamous deliverance, And having contrary advice from the multitude: Monarch changes put in danger over thought, Shut up in a cage they will see each other face to face."

Hey Nostradamus,

Check it out your, namesake predicted the Nic award and the fighting that would go on in the flight deck almost 500 years ago. Maybe we should not mess with this one?

But you are right, we West pilots deal with others differently than you east pilots. For example, we can keep our word.

 

[EastUS]

HOWEVER, I have not, and will not deny a jumpseat to anyone.....

On this much we agree, and I respect your actual, rather than feigned, integrity on this matter. Regardless of any additional "little" disagreements we have; denial of jumpseats, by anyone, is low-rent, childish BS....period, and reflects very poorly on all of us.

 

[ClueByFour]

On Friday, Ninth Circuit justices Leavy and Graber tersely denied USAPA's Motion for Emergency Stay, and rightfully so. If you have not read the documents leading to this decision, we encourage you to do so. Please click here for USAPA's Memo In Support of Stay Pending Appeal. Click here for the Leonidas reply to that motion, and here for the order denying USAPA's motion.

The next desperate move by USAPA was to then appeal to The Honorable Judge Wake's peers with the above referenced “Emergency Motion for Stayâ€￾ [link]. The Leonidas response to that motion can be found here, and finally the court's denial of that motion can be found here.

This might bother some, but these motions and orders are worth a good read. It's not everyday that you get both a district court and a circuit court (much less the 9th circus) to beat you down in the course of a week, with one motion denial ostensibly a one liner about the issue being "moot."

USAPA should have HQ'd the union in PIT. Then they could've called Edgar Snyder and Associates, with "no fee unless we get money for you!"

 

[Megasnoop]

Well, I seem to remember the APA getting slammed for 50+ million dollars for their illegal sick out circa 1997. I know my buddy was holding an assessment bill for close to 9 grand. I also know that the whole thing got negotiated away but certainly the APA lost something for it.

Metro, more 1/2 truth. From my brother who flies at AMR, APA was slapped with that fine when its 2 leaders, Mahew and Lavoy, got cross-wise with Federal Judge Kendall and they and the whole APA were held in contempt. There was no trial or jury award. APA couldnt assess non-members. The fine was never paid as APA and AMR reached an agreement after Mahew and Lavoy got voted out. Any comparison is ridiculous. If dont believe me ask your "buddy." So name 1 trial award where the rank and file was forced to pay DFR damages.

I would argue that the company is doing whatever it wants now as USAPA effectiveness as a Union was Dead on Arrival.

The company tested USAPA in 3 high-dollar grievances. They found out USAPA isnt ALPA. USAPA went after LCC straight on, not the alpa-thing trying to negotiate a compromise into future contract. Results soon.

Two weeks and counting.

So why all the anger? Why not just let this unfold in court instead of flamethrowing on this chat?

Regarding AWA pilots paying 1/3 of the legal costs, think again. Objector/Challengers pay only costs germane to contract administration/negotiation. Assesments of this nature are not applicable. Lots and lots of objectors over here......

Dont mix germaine legal fees with damages. Cost of this DFR is germaine and all non-members are paying for it right now. If for the first time in DFR judgement history, there is a monetary award, then yes, Id bet only members have to pay. Metro trying to sell the story that all east pilots, even non-members, will have to pay. The logic is absurd. But west members? Theyll be getting out their checkbooks too. Most likely USAPA just BK. Wait to see the havoc (Hemenway letter) the company brings down with no union to hold them back.

america west pilots update, April 13

Try as you might, the results of this litigation cannot be ignored, no matter how many times Randy Mowrey or Elwood Menear may tell you this.

Noster, only from the west. No humanity or shame. Snoop

 

[nycbusdriver]

Jumpseat denial still happening is it? Let me give you the flight attendant's point of view.

Witnessing this happen even once was too much. ...

....We are respectful of the Captain's authority, but we also are not eunuchs. We have been and will continue to be resourceful when it comes to helping any commuters of any stripe when the Captain won't.

Thank you for that perspective. Your points are truly valid. Unfortunately, even your valid points are lost on an egomaniacal captain who does not really care what you, his/her crew, think of him/her. When you fly with someone like this, despite what might be a friendly demeanor on the captain's part, you are on very thin ice. But, judging from your post, I think you already figured that out.

 

[careerfurloughee]

I haven't visited this site for a long time. After reading what is going on now, thank God I got the hell out 7 years ago! Best move I ever made was taking early retirement from this festering boil of an airline.

 

[luvn737s]

Dont mix germaine legal fees with damages. Cost of this DFR is germaine and all non-members are paying for it right now.

There are only 3 broad catagories of germaine fees: Representation, Contract Administration and Grievance Processing.

Defending yourself in court against illegal activity does not fall under any of those categories.