USAPA/ALPA thread of the week 5/31-6/6

[EastUS]

At least you admit that the act has been perpetrated.

Ineresting point of itself = How would that be otherwise known, or even assumed to have happened out west?

 

[PA18]

There was more to it than that. Have you bothered to research / talk to former Empire pilots for a more detailed answer? By your post I think not.

Before the buyout was announced ALPA / Empire was starting the process of organizing. At the time everything was on track for Empire to join ALPA. In addition to other organizing efforts at other properties. After the buyout announcement ALPA dropped Empire like a hot potato. Ever wonder why?

It would seem to me that ALPA had an alternate agenda for the Empire pilots. Sacrificial lambs, if you will. Would have loved to be the proverbial fly on the wall during the pre-merger conversations in Herndon. The post merger blitz by ALPA, including the PEX property, was the ALPA threat, "Join us or get treated like Empire". No, ALPA was actively hunting other properties to bring into the fold. By stapling the Empire pilots just played into ALPA's organizing plans to a tee. The slogan, "Look what you get, ALPA merger protections with our policy. Ooops, now "Guidelines". No wonder ALPA didn't get the Empire vote.

Then came the PI merger. And the rest is history. But to twist DOH to suit your argument is disingenuous.

This is just about spot on, with one exception. You say that ALPA "didn't get the Empire vote". Over 90% of the Empire pilots submitted cards to ALPA authorizing an election. So ALPA did have the Empire vote; they simply decided they didn't want it, for the above-stated political reasons.

The ALPA policy has always only applied to two ALPA carriers merging. Empire was not ALPA; in fact, they did not have a legal bargaining representative.

Empire did have an in-house pilots union. As to whether it was a "legal bargaining representative", I must confess ignorance.

What I was told (and many Empire pilots probably have a different perspective of events) was that ALPA had approached the Empire group on previous occasions to organize and was rebuffed.

For 20-something years, one of the justifications of the former PI pilots of their avaricious treatment of the former Empire pilots is, "But y'all turned down ALPA two times."

I have never seen any evidence of this. As stated above, the Empire pilots attempted to join ALPA, and were stonewalled by National.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It's nice that civil trials have a burden of only the preponderance of the evidence. Given that more than 90% of the evidence is electronic, and therefore traceable, it will be easy for the jury to realize that Bradford likely did not take the time to mail himself an envelope of feces. (I wonder what the postmark is.)

But, no doubt, the grasping at straws defense will play an important part.

Should be interesting.

 

[kubotapilot]

I see all you eastyz have already conducted your trial proceedings and have found the defendant guilty. Now that's some speedy and deep thinking for ya.......

I just can't help but wonder how difficult it would be for Field General Stevie B. to send himself a couple samples of dog poop through the mail. Wouldn't be difficult at all - even for him. And it sure would add some nice gravy to "beef up" the frivilous lawsuit he and his land$$$hark planned to file.

"Yep, here you go Your Honor, here's your evidence right here."


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

I would imagine your scenario would include some several thousand fake caller id's, emails etc... perpetrated by same Stevie B. ???

I really am hopeful that these actions are indicative of a minority of the west pilot group, as I have several old friends (True senior west ca's that would never condone such childish behavior).

This group is an embarrassment to the profession and will be dealt with accordingly. What kind of imbecile would think calls to a toll-free number would be un-traceable, oh yeah, the same ones who think their ip addresses are also not traceable.

The litigation costs to awappa leon-whatever alone will be interesting...

Some of the west group may not be the most intelligent bunch, but they sure are entertaining !!

 

[exB717Flyer]

Considering that civil litigation takes 5-7 years to reach trial I expect USAPA and/or USAirways to be long gone by then.

 

[banshee74]

Its a civil lawsuit. What fusapa appears to be after is a "cease and desist order." Oh yea - and money. Money, money, money. So nobody's going to jail, regardless of the outcome.

And at first blush, the vast majority of the claims are leaning strongly towards being frivilous, with no proof what-so-ever. Hell, they don't even have their defendants list put together yet.

If nothing else, the baby union will spend more money with this lawsuit than they can ever expect to recover. And they will most likely aide the west in steeling our resolve, and at the same time could look like fools to those eastyz who still have a head on their shoulders.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

I just read through the entire 49 page filing and if the allegations are found to be true, (and the suit was assembled from totally objective and factual electronic means) these actions are appalling, and a complete embarrassment to the airline pilot profession.

The "embarrassment" part is my opinion, and before anyone starts blasting me for that, please read the ENTIRE filing. I would rather go form a senior block holding captain to a junior F/O reserve than compromise my career principles and integrity to do anything like this, especially the part concerning the safety hotline.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Considering that civil litigation takes 5-7 years to reach trial I expect USAPA and/or USAirways to be long gone by then.

Go ahead, burn down the house. Your name is out there and good luck getting another flying job anywhere. You won't even get a job flying rubber dog $h*t out of Hong Kong. Ironic, huh?

Later,
Eye

 

[Piedmont1984]

I just read through the entire 49 page filing and if the allegations are found to be true, (and the suit was assembled from totally objective and factual electronic means) these actions are appalling, and a complete embarrassment to the airline pilot profession.

The "embarrassment" part is my opinion, and before anyone starts blasting me for that, please read the ENTIRE filing. I would rather go form a senior block holding captain to a junior F/O reserve than compromise my career principles and integrity to do anything like this, especially the part concerning the safety hotline.

Does anyone have a link to the filing?

 

[kubotapilot]

Considering that civil litigation takes 5-7 years to reach trial I expect USAPA and/or USAirways to be long gone by then.

Yeah, maybe ed beuvaise (sp??) or some deep pocket white knight will invest in awappa leonidas whatever llc just to see the outcome of the lawsuit !

If this thing goes either USAPA or North Carolina (read criminal DOJ) vs. Leonidas, I wonder who will have the deeper pockets ???

Well, unlike many of my "west" brethren, I have been there, done that and am definitely not afraid regardless of the outcome. I made my "airline career" my distant second income several years ago. I can tell you sincerely that if you are doing this for the $$, you are in the wrong profession!

Best of luck to you all!

 

[ua767fo]

The jumpseat is a difficult situation. The captain has to have final authority.

Another facet of the problem is when jumpseat is granted and the pilots then berate the jumpseater for the duration of the flight. Next time, the jumpseater decides not to even ask. That's a de facto denied jumpseat.

Keep POLITICS OFF THE JUMPSEAT AT ALL AIRLINES.......GET IT!!!

 

[flynomore]

Does anyone have a link to the filing?

========================================

Back around page 9 or 10 but here it is again:

http://www.planebusiness.com/buzz/awausapa.pdf

 

[exB717Flyer]

Go ahead, burn down the house.

Huh? I wasn't making a threat, just a prediction.

Your name is out there and good luck getting another flying job anywhere. You won't even get a job flying rubber dog $h*t out of Hong Kong.

Now that sounds like a threat. Says a lot more about you than it does about me.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

I would imagine your scenario would include some several thousand fake caller id's, emails etc... perpetrated by same Stevie B. ???

I really am hopeful that these actions are indicative of a minority of the west pilot group, as I have several old friends (True senior west ca's that would never condone such childish behavior).

This group is an embarrassment to the profession and will be dealt with accordingly. What kind of imbecile would think calls to a toll-free number would be un-traceable, oh yeah, the same ones who think their ip addresses are also not traceable.

The litigation costs to awappa leon-whatever alone will be interesting...

Some of the west group may not be the most intelligent bunch, but they sure are entertaining !!

Kubotapilot-

Mentioning Stevie B. and using a smiley face?!? Expect a law suit any time!

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

The most telling of all of this is the loss of $289,000 a month in dues.

Are they at 100% from their side?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Huh? I wasn't making a threat, just a prediction.Now that sounds like a threat. Says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Observation, not threat.

Point blank, a lot of you Westies have crossed over to the dark side with utterly stupid criminal acts and look where it's getting you guys? Sued and in court. When are you guys going to learn? The Easties are not your enemy; the stupid acts that a number of your co-workers have done drags you down -- and the whole pilot profession for that matter.

Work with the union you have instead of working against it. Don't you want a good contract?

Later,
Eye