US Airways Pilots' Labor Discussion 4/2-4/8

[Piedmont1984]

Of course, the only attempt to prove that anyone has done anything to subvert, obstruct, or impede the CBA was tossed out of court.


Let's say that Wake loses his mind, and that Team Seeham actually gets to introduce, say, the earlier federal suit into evidence. You see where it's going on cross, correct?

"So, (insert the witness here), was the lawsuit in question promptly dismissed with prejudice by the Court?"

Yeah, that'll make a real impression with the jury.

You guys really don't get it--the question is about the DFR. The rest is just noise.

"So, did your side make any effort to become USAPA dues paying members? If you answer is in the affirmative, prove it".

"This text message originated from your cell phone, it's contents are - profanity, threats, insults, etc. - directed at - USAPA committee members/officers, fellow west pilots on the fence, etc - we have many more, care to comment?"

"Your former MEC chairman publicly stated that should USAPA win the election, it would be all out war - your response?"

"I have here some of the early postings sent out by AOL and AWAPPA, after I read them would you care to comment how anyone could construe the attitude and intent therein as anything other than the subversion of the very union they claim is not representing them fairly?"

Yeah, that will make an impression on the jury too.

 

[fodase]

"So, did your side make any effort to become USAPA dues paying members? If you answer is in the affirmative, prove it".

"This text message originated from your cell phone, it's contents are - profanity, threats, insults, etc. - directed at - USAPA committee members/officers, fellow west pilots on the fence, etc - we have many more, care to comment?"

"Your former MEC chairman publicly stated that should USAPA win the election, it would be all out war - your response?"

"I have here some of the early postings sent out by AOL and AWAPPA, after I read them would you care to comment how anyone could construe the attitude and intent therein as anything other than the subversion of the very union they claim is not representing them fairly?"

Yeah, that will make an impression on the jury too.

What context were these things said and done? Oh that's right, we will use our superior numbers and staple the west, a "pure win for the east" as the judge said. Bring it on, I would love to hear what the average american would do when faced with an organization who's sole purpose is to get out from an agreed to contract in order to harm the minority, yup i'm sure they won't empathize with the west's predicament.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

"So, did your side make any effort to become USAPA dues paying members? If you answer is in the affirmative, prove it".

"This text message originated from your cell phone, it's contents are - profanity, threats, insults, etc. - directed at - USAPA committee members/officers, fellow west pilots on the fence, etc - we have many more, care to comment?"

"Your former MEC chairman publicly stated that should USAPA win the election, it would be all out war - your response?"

"I have here some of the early postings sent out by AOL and AWAPPA, after I read them would you care to comment how anyone could construe the attitude and intent therein as anything other than the subversion of the very union they claim is not representing them fairly?"

Yeah, that will make an impression on the jury too.

Oh for crying out loud, Woody alone has spouted off more garbage than you are alleging here. You still don't seem to have figured out the issue it appears.

 

[Piedmont1984]

What context were these things said and done? Oh that's right, we will use our superior numbers and staple the west, a "pure win for the east" as the judge said. Bring it on, I would love to hear what the average american would do when faced with an organization who's sole purpose is to get out from an agreed to contract in order to harm the minority, yup i'm sure they won't empathize with the west's predicament.

"Did you hear or read USAPA say that they intended to "staple the west" and if so can you please identify or produce the document or other source to support your allegation?"

 

[Piedmont1984]

Oh for crying out loud, Woody alone has spouted off more garbage than you are alleging here. You still don't seem to have figured out the issue it appears.

Just remember that jury trials - are like a box of chocolates.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Just remember that jury trials - are like a box of chocolates.

That's true. Maybe I misspoke, maybe you do get it and are hanging your hat on that fact. I have seen some of that in the east ranks.

Despite the box of chocolates, I really don't think a jury is going to say to usapa, "geez, we'd have done just what you guys did, your cause is righteous , carry on." It is possible though, I suppose.

 

[V1cut]

Oh, I think we all "get it"... although it's been hard to keep your gymnastics on track. Among other things, the west will claim that the East (via USAPA) have failed to consider the west's winfall...er...Nic award when formulating a new DOH union. And that said union has been remiss in it's duty by not holding Parkers family jewels to the fire in getting a joint contract whereby the Nic award would become a legal and integral part of a CBA, thereby cementing their Christmas present.

(How'm I doin' so far?...)

And that due to continued seperate ops (of course, all USAPA's fault, and they can prove this) that some west pilots have been harmed via downgrade or FUR not congruent with the Christmas present (Nic)

(still with me?)

And they have begun to distance themselves from their adolescent behavior which they deem "irrelevent"...(although their self-help antics will diminish any "damages" they may be awarded, if any.)

The judge will render a decision which will undoubtedly go through the appellate process regardless who wins...and in any event, USAPA will continue to be a DOH union on this property and will establish their own seniority list, either the currently standing one that they submitted, or a variant of the Nic/USAPA list...but the west won't see the Nic in any contract in any case...it's just that simple.

And the rest of it is all ball-bearings.

 

[fodase]

"Did you hear or read USAPA say that they intended to "staple the west" and if so can you please identify or produce the document or other source to support your allegation?"

Yes, it's all over youtube. Usapa was started to get out from under the nic, usapa founders clearly state on several videos and in campaign literature that they can use superior numbers to get out from under the Nic, usapa has proposed a doh list with conditions and restrictions that would have 80% of the west pilots furloughed before the most junior man on the east side date of merger get's touched. Usapa's conditions and restrictions are a laughable joke and will serve the west well in court, read them yourself and ask if you would want the job of defending them in front of a jury. Do you think that when looking at the Nic. and then at usapa's list that there is any doubt which side wins and which side loses? no there isn't a the judge said it "a pure win for the east and a pure lost for the west" spin away.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Despite the box of chocolates, I really don't think a jury is going to say to usapa, "geez, we'd have done just what you guys did, your cause is righteous , carry on." It is possible though, I suppose.

Some jurors will and some won't. Some may say "your cause is reasonable, but..."

It is my sincere hope, even at this late date, that the two pilot groups can still achieve some sort of solution which is mutually agreed upon. Any other outcome will likely lead to yet more litigation and prolong our mutual agony.

The best solution is a solution which the pilots agree to amongst themselves. An imposed solution, either by an arbitrator (history) or a jury (prediction), will only act to harden each side's resolve.

Parker should have said, "I'm locking the doors, I'll supply you guys with pizza and beer/coffee, don't leave until you have an agreement. And accept the fact that whatever agreement you reach, your names will be seen on bathroom walls for years. Resign yourselves to that". Unfortunately, he didn't have the leadership skills and qualities.

Perhaps Judge Wake will be the better man.

 

[ussnark]

No problem, the west pilot will simply have his fo removed.

You presume it is the fo who has the problem. Will the fo have the "pilot" captain removed if the "captain" is the problem? and, why not?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Some jurors will and some won't. Some may say "your cause is reasonable, but..."

It is my sincere hope, even at this late date, that the two pilot groups can still achieve some sort of solution which is mutually agreed upon. Any other outcome will likely lead to yet more litigation and prolong our mutual agony.

The best solution is a solution which the pilots agree to amongst themselves. An imposed solution, either by an arbitrator (history) or a jury (prediction), will only act to harden each side's resolve.

Parker should have said, "I'm locking the doors, I'll supply you guys with pizza and beer/coffee, don't leave until you have an agreement. And accept the fact that whatever agreement you reach, your names will be seen on bathroom walls for years. Resign yourselves to that". Unfortunately, he didn't have the leadership skills and qualities.

Perhaps Judge Wake will be the better man.

Perhaps Wake will do what Prater should have done from the start, say "the list is the list boys and girls. Yes we can talk about how to live with each other, but to reiterate, the list is the list." Usapa has done more to undermine our relationship than anything else, period. Usapa as is has proven to be a disaster by literally any measure. In my humble opinion, that is.

 

[Leonidas]

Some jurors will and some won't. Some may say "your cause is reasonable, but..."

It is my sincere hope, even at this late date, that the two pilot groups can still achieve some sort of solution which is mutually agreed upon. Any other outcome will likely lead to yet more litigation and prolong our mutual agony.

The best solution is a solution which the pilots agree to amongst themselves. An imposed solution, either by an arbitrator (history) or a jury (prediction), will only act to harden each side's resolve.

Parker should have said, "I'm locking the doors, I'll supply you guys with pizza and beer/coffee, don't leave until you have an agreement. And accept the fact that whatever agreement you reach, your names will be seen on bathroom walls for years. Resign yourselves to that". Unfortunately, he didn't have the leadership skills and qualities.

Perhaps Judge Wake will be the better man.

Priceless, so you want us to negotiate yet again? I got news for you, the east are the only people with the problem, they need to accept the nic and move on, the nic is not the problem here, the east's expectations of recovering their careers on the back of the west are. Here is a list of recent mergers off the top of my head that didn't go doh:
dal/nwa
amr/twa (I know but still)
us/shuttle
amr/reno
fedex/flying tigers
air wisconsin/mid valley? (this one really hits home as the wisconsin boys tried to do what usapa actually did)

As you can see doh in a pilot integration hasn't happen in decades, it is a pure land grab by the east pilots. So you there is no negotiation left, the results of the process was the nicolau award, you east boys need to buck it up and focus your energy on management. Every east captain on a class 2 aircraft has probably lost $100k in salary and benefits because of your own blindness.

 

[nostradamus]

Perhaps Wake will do what Prater should have done from the start, say "the list is the list boys and girls. Yes we can talk about how to live with each other, but to reiterate, the list is the list." Usapa has done more to undermine our relationship than anything else, period. Usapa as is has proven to be a disaster by literally any measure. In my humble opinion, that is.

Nic fever, an aviatordisiac.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Nic fever, an aviatordisiac.

Yawn, where's the link to the original rico complaint?

 

[nic4us]

Theyre once lyved a younge ladde naymed Nic
Who dreamte up a konjuror's trycke

Whyle wayting in lyne he woude skype by the reste
"Tis the kustomme", he claymed "in the weste"

Now thys raysed up the ire of the hoste
So they formde a newe lyne nere the coaste

And ere synce that tyme the younge weste lads do chyme
"Tys integryty matters the moste"

Okay, I think I am getting Stokholm now, cause I kind of enjoyed that. No I just appriciate good wit and humor and this qualifies.