US Airways Pilots' Labor Discussion 4/2-4/8

[lynyrdskynyrd]

No arbitration was requested. There was a request for a facilitator. The company rejected that request. Evidently 3 1/2 years in talks is okay with them.

"Watch what they do, not what they say."

Three and a half years is baby #### where I come from. And you think Alpa failed you on the east? Anyhow, a portion of that 3 and a half years was caused by the east pulling out.

You didn't actually believe usapa was gonna waltz in and get you your pot of gold and a new list did you? Or, then again, maybe you did.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Metroyet

"USAPA, it's a better choice than ALPA" is not a campaign slogan. It's a statement of fact. Or more accurately, an assertion, since you obviously dispute the fact.

We were in a election campaign. Slogans need to be concise and attention getting. They need to touch upon one of the major issues, and "Seniority Matters" did just that.


Theyre once lyved a younge ladde naymed Nic
Who dreamte up a konjuror's trycke

Whyle wayting in lyne he woude skype by the reste
"Tis the kustomme", he claymed "in the weste"

Now thys raysed up the ire of the hoste
So they formde a newe lyne nere the coaste

And ere synce that tyme the younge weste lads do chyme
"Tys integryty matters the moste"

 

[Metroyet]

Sounds like AOL will be out of money before then.


http://www.armyofleonidas.org/

That's your only hope left. I wouldn't count on it however.

 

[jetjok1]

Separate ops does not work for me... Unless the NMB would like to reconsider its single carrier status ruling, find the representation election was in error....dismember USAPA and hold two separate elections.

I do agree that intermix of the crews would be interesting to say the least.

Nic,

Separate ops doesn't work for me either because I don't want the management of this company to have any advantage over us-PERIOD!!!

Also, about the intermix, I am an eternal optomist. I feel we could work together just fine. We are professional aviators and I know we can set aside our differences because of the responsibility we have that sits behind a"closed door".

 

[Megasnoop]

No arbitration was requested. There was a request for a facilitator. The company rejected that request. Evidently 3 1/2 years in talks is okay with them.

NYC, amazing how the West exagerates everything they think advances their lost cause. Who cares what the truth. From a request for facilitator to parker turning down arbitration. BTW, another 3 1/2 years is OK with me, too. $70 million in EAST-ONLY bonuses. We probably have a problem getting back to LOA84 wages, but the LOA93 concessions expire in 9 months. In these financial times, nice pay increase. So much for West pilot pay advantage.

NYC, but there is no mention that the East walked out of negotiations, refused to negotiate for over 1 year of that period. According to the TA that is a triggering mechanism for the implementation of the NIC.

Fact check, Nic4. ALPA-MEC-EAST walked out of negotiations. They don't represent us anymore. No East/West, just one union: usapa. Also, "walk-out" was in June 2007. ALPA given the boot in April 2008. Where you getting that "over 1 year?" Just one more example of your exageration trying to stretch an invalid point. And WHERE in the TA is a refusal to negotiate a triggering mechanism?

Snooper-dooper

 

[tazz]

I said I agree. There are commuters avoiding opposite side metal, even if it would get them home sooner, just because they do not want to have to ask for a jumpseat, much less ride it.

I would be one of those. In the summer I commute to my home in Rhode Island. Turned down by east crews many times so now I use SWA exclusively. Funny how the east acts as if they are the only ones turned down for JS and have gone crying to the chief pilots office about it. Being a typical westie I just sucked it up and moved on. Oh, and back before I was downgraded I did return the favor and refused east pilots my js. Yes, eastus, I know, I'm the immature one.....

 

[Tiger 1050]

Nic,

Separate ops doesn't work for me either because I don't want the management of this company to have any advantage over us-PERIOD!!!

Also, about the intermix, I am an eternal optomist. I feel we could work together just fine. We are professional aviators and I know we can set aside our differences because of the responsibility we have that sits behind a"closed door".

Dare I say, I completely agree.

 

[tazz]

IRRELEVANT.

It's shocking how many angles you guys come up with that are 100% meaningless fluff in regards to the real, factual lawsuit. Seham has been admonished time and again for straying into the netherworld of irrelevant, emotionally charged B.S.. and you guys are there on the side lines cheering him on. This is about what USAPA did. How USAPA failed in their legally binding obligations. The "members" have zero requirement to be involved, complicit, or supportive of their CBA, in any way other than to toss a few bucks at it. USAPA is clearly, and firmly on the wrong side of the law regardless of how many of you attempt to spin and revise history.

USAPA didn't come to being because ALPA sucked. Even the most casual observer can figure that one out...those spiffy yellow lanyards didn't say, "USAPA, a better choice than ALPA". What did they say again? Oh Yeah,

"Seniority Matters"

A curious first slogan from a fledgling new union that allegedly wasn't formed to evade the nic. award. Think a jury is going to buy that?


Honestly, did you guys under estimate the conviction of the West THAT badly? Did you really think you were going to be allowed to waltz in and "have your way" with anybody you wanted with their full, docile consent? I can't believe a group of adults could have been so myopic and stupid to have believed that. However, shock and disbelief at USAPAs decisions and behavior is nothing new.

I feel compelled to remind you that your side was warned, - in to uncertain terms- in the Youtube videos that they have galvanized the West like nothing ever has and if they wanted a fight on their hands they had best get ready to brawl as this one was going to the mat. However, bad legal advise, arrogance and raw emotion deafened the self appointed and now here we are, just where Seham promised you Wouldn't be. In front of a Judge.

USAPA is nothing but a school yard bully who got punched in the face by the kid whom they tried to intimidate. And just like a bully who gets punched on the playground, USAPA is standing there, frustrated, turning red, eyes welling up with tears, not sure what to do next because at the heart of all bully's lies a simple coward...Cleary, are you Listening?

3.5 weeks and counting. Can't wait.

Well said. Bears repeating. I, too, can't wait.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I would be one of those. In the summer I commute to my home in Rhode Island. Turned down by east crews many times so now I use SWA exclusively. Funny how the east acts as if they are the only ones turned down for JS and have gone crying to the chief pilots office about it. Being a typical westie I just sucked it up and moved on. Oh, and back before I was downgraded I did return the favor and refused east pilots my js. Yes, eastus, I know, I'm the immature one.....

Don't suppose you ever heard of the Golden Rule. Sorry you were denied. Would not happen on my jumpseat.

 

[Tiger 1050]

NYC, amazing how the West exagerates everything they think advances their lost cause. Who cares what the truth [is].

Snooper-dooper

LOL!

Kinda like your statements regarding your 70 mil. and the snapback...

 

[Metroyet]

LOL!

Kinda like your statements regarding your 70 mil. and the snapback...

I hate to break this to the East but the Wests' Law firm is keenly aware of, and interested in this upcoming 70million dollar windfall. I wouldn't be so sure yet that it's going to be an "east only" bonus. Damages can be expensive.

 

[Megasnoop]

I hate to break this to the East but the Wests' Law firm is keenly aware of, and interested in this upcoming 70million dollar windfall. I wouldn't be so sure yet that it's going to be an "east only" bonus. Damages can be expensive.

My oh my! Lets see, TA signed Sept 2005, THEN East gets its LOA93-negotiated stock options. No West payoff there. Now, the 70million dollar "windfall" up for grabs? Sorry, Metro, that was a negotiated amount, payback for wage concessions. "Damages?" You got to be kidding.

Separate Ops! Got to love it! BTW, guess we pick up some Hawaii flying as LCC retires the old west ETOPS 757s. Guess usapa will have to file a TA dispute after the 2nd plane starts flying. Expedited and all. Last time we went "expedited" on the TA, took 5 months to get to arbitration. Probably another 2 months before the results.

You guys are so full of bravado, your actually believe your own hype. You never cease to amaze.

Snooper

 

[Tiger 1050]

You guys are so full of bravado, your actually believe your own hype. You never cease to amaze.

Snooper

Wow. There's some saying about a mirror or something... I can't think of it. Maybe you know it?

 

[ClueByFour]

You have a problem you choose to ignore at your own peril: that your claims of USAPA's failure to "fairly represent" are in no way associated with the west's documented strategy to AVOID representation. In that, you are likely in for a surprise. You cannot on one hand claim a failure of DFR while ignoring your active and voluntary "avoidance of FR"....the two will be linked via testimony and documentation for the court. I read some of your chat room...you guys screwed yourselves with your bravado to each other.


ta ta...

If you believe this, the outcome of Addington will most likely make your head explode.

A union has a lawful "duty" to fairly represent it's members. The members under the law (not USAPA bylaws, but the actual law) don't have to lift a finger. Not a thing. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

My guess is that "documentation" of such never sees the courtroom, since the behaviors of the members (or class, for nonmembers) has absolutely nothing at all to do with the union's lawful duty to represent.

 

[EastUS]

I said I agree. There are commuters avoiding opposite side metal, even if it would get them home sooner, just because they do not want to have to ask for a jumpseat, much less ride it.

Which brings me to the bottom line on all this = How's it at all reasonable for anyone to ever want to see these groups actually operating flights together? If west safety is supossedly compromised by even the presence of an east jumpseater...well....???