US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[AWE Dog]

You statements about Captain Sullenberger is a very cowardly attempt to advance your less than admirable cause. Inexcusable use of an honorable mans name for selfish purposes. Disgusting.

notsofast,America West attracked the very best. You can only ride this low pay and benefit this so long, when you go to hire this is what you get.

 

[snapthis]

Well then perhaps you would like to explain to the viewing audience Sullenberger's expertise in contract reneging or arbitration avoidence, that would require his testimony on the subject of integrity as defined for his daughter during testimony.

Otherwise, it pretty much looks like Sullenberger allowed himself to be used by usapa for their dishonorable selfish purposes.

"boyman"? I am laughing very hard right now. okay, better now, had to wipe the tears from my eyes. Thanks for the laugh!

Boyman? Are we talking about Sully's Flap Operator. What was his name ? Did it start with an S?

 

[nic4us]

Personally, I will never vote on a contract that puts a pilot with less years of service in front of me. period!

Would you vote in favor of the usapa DOH proposal that puts east pilots with less LOS in front of line holding West captains that have considerably more?

 

[nic4us]

notsofast,America West attracked the very best. You can only ride this low pay and benefit this so long, when you go to hire this is what you get.

I think what you are saying is, you get what you pay for. Implying that AWA was only able to attract less desireable candidates.

hmmm. How did we end up with hundreds of ex USAir pilots on property? BTW, their employed AWA selfs are senior to their unemployed AAA selfs, go figure.

 

[Phoenix]

Your facts are wrong. If you can not argue from a place of knowledge you are wasting everyone time.

As far as the west coming to run your little union. Someone is going to have to . Because right now. Your boys are screwing it up.

Clear's Axiom: "If you can not argue from a place of knowledge you are wasting everyone time."

Take it to the bank!!

 

[KTM300]

Would you vote in favor of the usapa DOH proposal that puts east pilots with less LOS in front of line holding West captains that have considerably more?

No...with one caveat. I consider the MDA pilots as mainline not as furloughed pilots.

 

[nic4us]

No...with one caveat. I consider the MDA pilots as mainline not as furloughed pilots.

I respect your caveat, however disagree. However, there are still hundreds of former east furloughed pilots (not counting the MDA people) put ahead of many hundreds of never furloughed West captains with more LOS on the usapa DOH proposal.

 

[Metroyet]

I respect your caveat, however disagree. However, there are still hundreds of former east furloughed pilots (not counting the MDA people) put ahead of many hundreds of never furloughed West captains with more LOS on the usapa DOH proposal.

Just one reason why successfully suing USAPA is so Easy. DFR2.0 will be more fun than the 1st.

 

[767jetz]

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say, Brucia's and Gillian's opinions are irrelevent. When Wolf tried to merge USAirways with United, the UAL pilots showed their true colors. Not unlike the west pilots want now, a 1 1/2 year seniority UAL pilot thought he should be senior to someone with 13 years at USAirways.

Yup. And the USAir pilots showed their colors by wanting nothing to do with fences (C&R's) and wanting jobs they never had any right to, flying the 777 and 747. They even tried to claim that their A330's were the same as a 777. (How many 330's fly polar routes to Asia?) Why, you ask? Because they felt ENTITLED to it. Meanwhile 1 1/2 year f/o's at UAL were international 767 pilots, and 13 year USAir f/o's were junior 737 pilots at the time.

Then we heard the "see you in arbitration" mantra, which we now all know would have led to a slotted list with fences on the real widebodies, a USAir tantrum, and the east pilots trying to walk away from binding arbitration, dragging us into a multi year civil war and probably the ultimate demise of United Airlines. Thank Heavens that deal died!

Yup, nothing much has changed since then.

Same attitude.
Same hardliners running the union into the ground.
Same unreasonable expectations.
Same DOH mantra.
Same sense of entitlement.
Same attempt at repairing a weak career on the backs of others.
Same blaming of everyone but themselves.

 

[A320 Driver]

You mean the Brucia that said this:

"Finally, I would like to reaffirm my opinion that the Chairman Nicolau demonstrated exceptional judgment and wisdom working through many difficult and challenging issues including disparate aircraft types, routes, compensation systems, and pilot staffing formulas to mention just a few. It has been a privilege to work together with Chairman Nicolau and Captain Gillin on this Opinion and Award."

Take out the 517, the supervisory pilots, and the ones on medical and furlough, then whip out your pocket calculator and apply the ratios to what's left and POOF...you have the NIC award.

Difficult and challenging??? A 5th grader could do it. It was punitive because the East MEC demanded straight DOH, plain and simple. They were wrong to press their point, but the firestorm the NIC has caused proves it didn't come with much wisdom.

One other point about DOH and LOS... just personal opinion here but I don't think DOH should trump LOS in any kind of list.

Fire away!

Driver B)

 

[Pi brat]

Take out the 517, the supervisory pilots, and the ones on medical and furlough, then whip out your pocket calculator and apply the ratios to what's left and POOF...you have the NIC award.

Difficult and challenging??? A 5th grader could do it. It was punitive because the East MEC demanded straight DOH, plain and simple. They were wrong to press their point, but the firestorm the NIC has caused proves it didn't come with much wisdom.

One other point about DOH and LOS... just personal opinion here but I don't think DOH should trump LOS in any kind of list.

Fire away!

Driver B)

No fire here, I will leave that to the westies. I agree with your statement, but instead of the idea of sticking to DOH(actually LOS) being wrong, I see it more as being dumb. When I shared my view with my rep that I didn't think that LOS would fly, he agreed. He said we just had to go through the process and it was kind of like buying a car, you don't go to the manager with your best offer. AWA didn't go into arbitration with any lofty moral proposal either. There are those that thought the east should have it all, but I don't believe it was the majority.

I think it was the same with the UA mergers. Jetz lists a long list of grievance against the US pilots, and I have a few against UA pilots, but we never got to a seniority proposal, did we? Sure there were a few a hole east pilots(I freely admit we have one or two ) running their mouths about their 747 manuals, but there were a few a hole UA pilots telling me I wasn't worthy of being a UA pilot.

Mergers bring out the worst sometimes. I had a DL pilot in the hotel van the other day telling me how bad he was screwed by their merger, and it was supposed to be the poster child for mergers. How about those websites by CO pilots?

I think the east saw the process play out over many mergers and thought they had it all figured out. When the Nic came out as bad as it was perceived on the east, the shock and anger were too much and for the first time there was the right combination of anger and ability to do something about it-the majority got screwed bad enough to make them act.

I think calling the Nic award wise is like calling certain management teams wise. They manage to get somethings right, but screw up a lot more.

 

[KTM300]

Meanwhile 1 1/2 year f/o's at UAL were international 767 pilots, and 13 year USAir f/o's were junior 737 pilots at the time.

76Jizz,

You are dreaming. I know one of the 1 1/2 year UAL pilots because I mentored him when he was smashing bags on the ramp. I was proud of him for getting hired, but you are sadly mistaken. He was barely off the panel at that time

 

[cleardirect]

OK cleared, your the man with the numbers. Is this with all of the east and west list? East furloughed? How about only down to O'dell, where after that the east doesn't count anyway. No sense using those younger pilots in the average because they were stapled. You put a number and it's gospel? You know what they say about statistic's? Stupid? humm....

OK Really!

Do you really want to do this?

I you don’t believe my numbers I asked to prove me wrong. In order to find the average of each group I would have to separate the two groups right?

I used the west Nicolau list down to Dave Odell. He was our junior pilot. I used the complete east list furloughed included.

Now think back to primary math days when you average something. If I avoided the east younger furloughed pilots it would have INCREASED the average east age not decreased it.

Instead of attacking me or the numbers. Do the research and prove the age 58 plus claim. The facts are the facts. Just because they don’t match some fantasy in the east crew room does not change them. This has been the problem in the east from the beginning. Your leadership has not been truthful EVER. You guys don’t get the complete story.

You have a nice day. I get the feeling that most days are pretty hard for you to get through.

 

[RSVP767]

Just one reason why successfully suing USAPA is so Easy. DFR2.0 will be more fun than the 1st.

Now that's funny. You mean the one that got tossed. DISMISSED!!!!

Not so successful I'd say.

Yeah, suing is easy. Any fool can do it. Successfully suing and winning.....not so much.

Should be tons of fun! Best of luck!

 

[aquagreen73s]

Difficult and challenging??? A 5th grader could do it. It was punitive because the East MEC demanded straight DOH, plain and simple. They were wrong to press their point, but the firestorm the NIC has caused proves it didn't come with much wisdom.

Ok, so if majority satisfaction with the legal result matters, do the riots in LA prove that Stacey Koon and Laurence Powell should have been convicted?