US Pilots labor thread 11/5-

[ableoneable]

Gee, I wonder why America West had one of the worst contracts in the industry for decades.

Why, it was even the benchmark for post 911 concessionary contracts for the rest of the industry.

Management 'fear' of the 'wrath of the West' I suppose?

Yet another mischaracterization of the situation. While AWA pay was on the low side there were other parts of the contract that were/are superior.

It should also be noted that AWA had a chance to negotiate precisely two CBAs. The first was negotiated and ratified while AWA was under chapter 11 protection and the second was negotiated after 9/11 under the constraints imposed by the ATSB.

How well did you guys do with your chapter 11 contract negotiations? Were you able to increase pay and gain better working conditions like the AWA pilots did?

Thought so.

 

[cubfan]

Yet another mischaracterization of the situation. While AWA pay was on the low side there were other parts of the contract that were/are superior.

It should also be noted that AWA had a chance to negotiate precisely two CBAs. The first was negotiated and ratified while AWA was under chapter 11 protection and the second was negotiated after 9/11 under the constraints imposed by the ATSB.

How well did you guys do with your chapter 11 contract negotiations? Were you able to increase pay and gain better working conditions like the AWA pilots did?

Thought so.

ok, were not getting into who had the better contract, it really doesn't matter. What matters now is the company feels they can do whatever they want. Both contract's sux, how long before everyone quits helping them out. This action against the west is exactly how they feel about the employee group. I hope the las and phx reps finally say ENOUGH and advise HOGG they want a contractual displacement bid, if their contract calls for it. I would love to hear MGT's spin on this one....... :angry:

 

[Tiger 1050]

Things have certainly gotten out of hand. There is so much distraction and bitterness towards each other that MGT is laughing themselves all the way to the bank. I am furloughed and unable to do much other than sit on the sideline and watch.

I understand the BPR is now somewhat divided in what the future should look like. Support for USAPA may not be what it once was given the direction taken by the current BPR. Even if all the west collectively voted as one (never happen) the keys to a better future still remain in the hands of the east pilots... My hope is that you guys figure this out. It needs to be done in short order too! This MGT is dismantling this pilot group with ease.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I mean unreal as in I can't believe they would do that.

Nor can I. But our man on the TA10 remedy team, Mitch V., says this comes straight from Hemenway.

On the east they are running several displacement bids. I'm no big fan of those running USAPA, but this is the company's fault, not theirs, and it's not right.

My unasked question is would they pull this if ALPA were still on the property? Regardless, they feel perfectly comfortable pulling it on USAPA. Unity starts with our union leadership, a task Dear Leader Mr. Cleary is clearly not interested in.

I too am for furlough mitigation. We haven't see eye to eye on some things, but I'm truly sorry for you and the rest of our pilots being furloughed.

Thanks. I was in the original 175 West pilots slated for furlough but was saved by EVLAs. Apparently, there won't even be EVLAs offered on the West since there's no displacement bid. USAPA needs to be seriously up in arms about this but I don't see that coming from Dear Leader Mr. Cleary.

 

[Hawkhunter]

I can tell you where all the next fireworks should be: the closing of the LAS base requires a displacement bid but the company has already said it won't do it. Yes, that's an egregious violation of the West CBA yet the company has no fear. The arbitrator will hear the grievance late in 2010. In the meantime, the company saves beaucoup dollars on training costs which helps justify the 35 West furloughs. US Airways has no fear of USAPA because USAPA has no leverage. Gee, I wonder why...

Right, I remember how the company shaked in their shoes when ALPA was mad. That sternly written letter worked everytime. Gee, I wonder why...

 

[exB717Flyer]

Right, I remember how the company shaked in their shoes when ALPA was mad. That sternly written letter worked everytime. Gee, I wonder why...

Okay, I'll concede the point: ALPA sucked. Problem now facing all US Airways pilots is that USAPA sucks worse. You must be so proud.

 

[CallawayGolf]

There is so much distraction and bitterness towards each other that MGT is laughing themselves all the way to the bank.

This MGT is dismantling this pilot group with ease.

I don't think MGT is laughing at any of this, but why wouldn’t they take advantage of every opportunity to achieve profitability in the current economic climate, or any climate for that matter? Management’s primary purpose is to maximize shareholder value within the constraints of the business. If there is a dearth of rational, objective thinking within the union leadership, then should the company not see fit to manage around them?

Besides, a union without unity is really just a empty shell.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

I don't think MGT is laughing at any of this, but why wouldn’t they take advantage of every opportunity to achieve profitability in the current economic climate, or any climate for that matter? Management’s primary purpose is to maximize shareholder value within the constraints of the business.

2 year Chart of LCC

Your right they are not laughing ......they are wetting their pants.
They can't even get LCC stock price out of a range of that of JUL 2008 (height of fuel crisis).

Even with our load factors at record highs - we continue to have the lowest yield in the industry (source ATW)
BK concessionary labor contracts,
Pilot groups completely polarized and furloughing
Restructured capital expenditures and debt service,
Lower fuel and operating costs,
The sale of assets, gates, and slots while outsourcing to the regional s and shrinking mainline.
Closing THREE DOMICILES
Outsourcing greater percentage of maintenance
The cost saving of eliminating SABRE with SHARES - Were there any realized cost savings?
How many countless "one time charge offs" and NOL carryovers?
Even with all these factors(some) our capital continues to decreases and our cash burn increases. The company is still willing to play chicken with the unions (although right now it's one thing they are doing right, but it will eventually come back to bite them)

If the PLAN THIS WEEK (as it keeps changing) is to be a stand alone carrier.....
At what point do the shareholders have an uprising and BOD says adios to the Tres Amigos in Tempe?

 

[exB717Flyer]

At what point do the shareholders have an uprising and BOD says adios to the Tres Amigos in Tempe?

Never. Not that I disagree with your points but when's the last time an airline CEO was ousted? Every decent executive knows better than to touch the airline industry. Thus, we end up with what we have and BODs are scared to give even lousy CEOs up.

 

[luvn737s]

I was in the original 175 West pilots slated for furlough but was saved by EVLAs. Apparently, there won't even be EVLAs offered on the West since there's no displacement bid. USAPA needs to be seriously up in arms about this but I don't see that coming from Dear Leader Mr. Cleary.

Not trying to be an advocate of the devil (that job being ably handled in CLT) but if there is only one equipment and base having a vacancy (A320 PHX) and those vacancies exist only because of a base closure, would the results look much differently under a displacement bid versus what they are trying to pull? If it was a vacancy bid I could see senior pilots who may have wanted to bid off their current equipment pursuing the A320 slots in PHX, but this isn't the case here.

Are you saying that it would be proper to hold a vacancy bid first and displace into the secondary openings that were created as a result?

 

[Atlantic]

Ferris I think his name was. Probably didn't spell his name right, but he was the ceo of United in the '80's. Started them on their first train wreck. He got the boot.

 

[luvthe9]

[Your right they are not laughing ......they are wetting their pants.

And just wait till the first of the year when things really heat up out east. It's not going to be good by any means. :angry:

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

And just wait till the first of the year when things really heat up out east. It's not going to be good by any means. :angry:

What are you going to do?

 

[exB717Flyer]

Not trying to be an advocate of the devil (that job being ably handled in CLT) but if there is only one equipment and base having a vacancy (A320 PHX) and those vacancies exist only because of a base closure, would the results look much differently under a displacement bid versus what they are trying to pull?

From our CBA, Chapter 24(A)4b: "Pilots may bid and shall be awarded any Position that their seniority will allow." That means there need not be any vacancies. So without a doubt the results would be different. Some captains will choose to be 757 FOs and the like.

Are you saying that it would be proper to hold a vacancy bid first and displace into the secondary openings that were created as a result?

Not just proper but required per the CBA. This is no gray area. A domicile closing requires a displacement bid, finis. The company is not doing so because it will save them money.

 

[cleardirect]

And just wait till the first of the year when things really heat up out east. It's not going to be good by any means. mad.gif

What are you going to do?

That big bad count down clock is going to scare someone. Nothing weaker than a hard deadline to a non-event.