US Pilots labor thread 11/5-

[TheBadCat1313]

From our CBA, Chapter 24(A)4b: "Pilots may bid and shall be awarded any Position that their seniority will allow." That means there need not be any vacancies. So without a doubt the results would be different. Some captains will choose to be 757 FOs and the like.Not just proper but required per the CBA. This is no gray area. A domicile closing requires a displacement bid, finis. The company is not doing so because it will save them money.

They don't have the staffing to fly the required block hours out west and do a vacancy bid with all the required training. Whoever is left on the west, if they actually do the furloughs, is going to be flying their butts off.

 

[Dogandsuds]

Things have certainly gotten out of hand. There is so much distraction and bitterness towards each other that MGT is laughing themselves all the way to the bank. I am furloughed and unable to do much other than sit on the sideline and watch.

I understand the BPR is now somewhat divided in what the future should look like. Support for USAPA may not be what it once was given the direction taken by the current BPR. Even if all the west collectively voted as one (never happen) the keys to a better future still remain in the hands of the east pilots... My hope is that you guys figure this out. It needs to be done in short order too! This MGT is dismantling this pilot group with ease.

Dear Tiger,

As one furloughee to another, it's not fun, but there are jobs out there. I'm now starting my second one. One thing is for sure, every West grievance has been followed through like East's. There is no disunity when it comes to grievances. Anyone saying there is or that grievances are doomed to failure because USAPA is handling them, is just adding to the fighting. It serves no purpose. I don't know your contract, but I'd guess some LAS C/Os are junior to PHX-based C/Os. In most contracts, it's a slam-dunk seniority grievance that the junior guy gets displaced. Maybe yours isn't so clear. I would think it makes more sense for West guys to just file a grievance when their seniority is violated than to give the company enpowerment points on this board saying USAPA won't do anything. If USAPA wasn't doing the grievances right and losing them, that would be one thing, but that's not happening. The track record has been pretty good. I wish you guys could accept that.

I also wish you would accept that the $2+ million in dues owed last spring is now down to near $100K, with delinquancies being handled with payment plans. All that chest beating about never paying or never joining was all talk. Yes, I keep track of waht's going on through my friends in USAPA who still have jobs.

That gets me to this continued nastiness. I made a post challenging the "rape and pillage" comments of one of your posters. It was overboard hyperbole, meant only to inflame. His response was he called them like he saw them, but then went on to say we need to be unified by lowering the noise. You can't have it both ways. It's hard to imagine that ever happening with those kind of posts. There is no need to always get the last word in or the last got-ya.

That being said, if there is a grievance on this furlough or on the base closings to be filed, USAPA will follow through. Posting otherwise is just adding to the FUD.

I don't know who said this, but "Nothing Blinds People to Reality Like Ideology." Both sides need to get a grip. Think, would you type the things you do if you had to sign your name to them? I do want to come back to something, even as late as 2013, which is my latest guess for my recall. I won't get into the back and forth word-play both sides have. If you want to reply by notching it up, I won't respond. I see no point in the continued fights.

Sincerely,

Dogandsuds

 

[supercruiser]

Was the LAS base originally opened as a vacancy bid where anyone on any equipment could bid it, or was it established as a virtual type of domicile where you already had to be on the equipment in order to bid it?

Did LAS pilots get moving expenses when the base first opened? If the LAS base was opened originally as a virtual domicle, then if it closed, you might have to stay on the same equipment when going back to the PHX base. I'm wondering if that may be why the company is hanging their hat on a no displacemnt bid.

 

[Metroyet]

Dear Tiger,


That gets me to this continued nastiness. I made a post challenging the "rape and pillage" comments of one of your posters. It was overboard hyperbole, meant only to inflame. His response was he called them like he saw them, but then went on to say we need to be unified by lowering the noise. You can't have it both ways.


Sincerely,

Dogandsuds

You need to re-read a few things. I never once suggested that the noise be lowered. You're confusing my post with somebody else. I don't want it both ways. I want USAPA...AKA the EAST PILOTS to find some integrity and move on with the agreement that they freely entered into and abandon this diabolical plan to steal what they couldn't negotiate or arbitrate. Why is that so hard to understand? Where is there room for sugar coating? It's not hyperbole it's called a FACT despite the attempts at glossed over revisionist history. If stating facts is noisy to you than might I suggest you find some earplugs or another more sensitive forum that won't damage delicate sensibilities.

Also, the "chest thumping" from the west deprived usapa of any meaningful dues for a year and a half. That is until they held the career ending gun to the West's heads and demanded that they pay tribute for their own persecution...again. FACT. When has a pilot union ever run into that kind of resistance? How does that bode for the future? Easties seem to think that holding a man's family hostage and successfully collecting a ransom is some kind of "win". Congratulations. Is this really something to be proud of? Will this foster an environment that will get all pilots moving in the same direction for an improved quality of life? Hardly.

You seem oddly disconnected with the realities of this situation. In fact, you seem to have almost no knowledge as to the actual legal situation that you're in. I recall you posting something to the effect that USAPA broke no laws because nobody was charged criminally. Did your USAPA friends tell you that one as well? Seham? It's so illogical and uninformed that one of them must have.

Un-apologetically yours,

Metroyet.

 

[nic4us]

Was the LAS base originally opened as a vacancy bid where anyone on any equipment could bid it, or was it established as a virtual type of domicile where you already had to be on the equipment in order to bid it?

Did LAS pilots get moving expenses when the base first opened? If the LAS base was opened originally as a virtual domicle, then if it closed, you might have to stay on the same equipment when going back to the PHX base. I'm wondering if that may be why the company is hanging their hat on a no displacemnt bid.

LAS was originally opened with a vacancy bid, handled with the provisions of displacement, as there was a reduction in PHX and therefore displacements.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Was the LAS base originally opened as a vacancy bid where anyone on any equipment could bid it, or was it established as a virtual type of domicile where you already had to be on the equipment in order to bid it?

You may be referring to LOA 5 which allows for "virtual" domiciles. LAS didn't and doesn't apply, as Nic4us stated.

 

[cubfan]

You may be referring to LOA 5 which allows for "virtual" domiciles. LAS didn't and doesn't apply, as Nic4us stated.

Question......if what you say is true, which I'm sure it is, then what are your LAS and PHX reps going to do? Is this blatant contract violation being discussed among the BPR? Are they telling you anything as far as filing a grievance?

 

[exB717Flyer]

We haven't received any official word yet from any reps. They're working on it is all I know.