US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 2/24-3/3

[sharktooth]

This "flawed" list is a matter of opinion.

If evidence, a list, is presented that is incomplete in any way, then, as a fact, it is flawed. At least, ALPA should have presented an east list as a conditional one, resulting in some sort of conditional ordering. That there were no conditions, as such, I must believe the east list was presented as a matter of subterfuge on the part of ALPA, which makes any result depending on such a lie, as flawed.

We do. Against USAPA. Not ALPA. They are now the CBA as they've shouted from the rooftops - waving the flags, and jumping up and down. You guys want to play both sides of every argument. That won't work.

Still confused, aren't we.

 

[nycbusdriver]

USAPA election results are out.

Brice won in PHX.

 

[sharktooth]

You do understand that there will be no contract until this case is settled right?

"You do understand that there will be no "merged" contract until this case is settled right"

There, fixed that.

 

[mdsbear]

Admittedly, this is coming from a non-employee unfamiliar with the labor issue but since the "in a class of our own" thread is closed I thought I'd at least post this here. If management is claiming USAir is in a class of their own, why are they so eager to post how they are doing among the "BIG 6" in on time stats? (read the Doug page in the March USAir magizine). Doesn't ring fair to me. If you want to claim you are doing better than the other airlines in your group (industry standard) you should treat the members of your group comparably (notwithstanding the post about extra risk deserving extra pay!!). Just a laymans observation...
Good luck!


QUOTE (nycbusdriver @ Feb 20 2009, 02:47 PM)
At the risk of torpedoing this entire thread, the self-definition quoted in the first post was presented to the USAPA negotiating committee by the company in a egregious, farcical and disingenuous attempt to fend off demands for "industry standard" compensation. By proclaiming themselves in a "class of their own," management says it will not countenance paying their pilots (and likely every other labor group) what the "Big Airlines" and/or "Southwest" pays...since there is no "industry standard" for an airline in a "class of its own."

Of course, management, in an 8-K filing just last April, had this to say about executive compensation standards, and who they themselves determined their "peer group" to be"


NYC,

I would like to claim the following as my own, but alas, it is someone else's and I agree completely.


Thanks for characterizing the nature of the company, Mr Glass and Mr. Kirby.

Unfortunately, there are inherent risks associated with employment with a total hybrid airline that doesn't fit a mold and does not fit between the bookends. Naturally, we will need to be compensated for bearing the burden of this added risk. We now will require compensation in excess of any of the "normal" carriers.

 

[Pilot692]

USAPA election results are out.

Brice won in PHX.

And Douglas Parker swept the rest.

Shine up your ALPA pins, boys and girls.

 

[cleardirect]

USAPA election results are out.

Brice won in PHX.

Yep! Looks like a run off for President and Vice President.

Could be Mowery and Mowrey. Now that would be confusing.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yep! Looks like a run off for President and Vice President.

Could be Mowery and Mowrey. Now that would be confusing.

It probably depends on how the "also rans" use their new found, albeit very temporary, influence in choosing whom to endorse.

 

[nostradamus]

Why do you think the "litigation Library" is missing several recent filings? I guess their trying to be more thoughtful with the spin...either that or they don't want to show those that pay their astronomical legal bills what a embarrassingly incompetent lawyer seham is.

Hint: another denied motion with a solid usapa reaming from the Judge.


You guys pay their salary and their bills. I'd demand to see all court filings if I were an Eastie.

Recent america west pilot update below, explaining how they went from 50 percent support to 100 percent to taylor their requirements for class action legal status, a miracle.

""It is amazing how the West pilots had to lose our name, lose our union and face the total abandonment of OUR former management in order to clearly define ourselves. Though the AWA pilots may not be unified on every conceivable issue, the challenges of this merger have cemented us together like nothing before. Prior to last week's update, Leonidas LLC had received financial contributions from just over half of our active pilot group. We thought that represented pretty solid support. However, once it was known that the judge would require Leonidas to turn over its contribution records (less the individual names), those who had been procrastinating with their money decided to no longer delay and effectively go on record (with their wallets, and not just their words) as supportive of our mission and the litigation effort. As of 2000Z on Friday, a super-majority, had materialized, and it appears now that it will not be long before we have achieved nearly unanimous financial support.


We stated at the onset of this mission that we would like to raise at least one-million dollars for the necessary legal battles that will be required to simply compel our adversaries to keep their word. We are well on our way, so please keep it up.""

 

[EastUS]

Glad that you guys are feeling so good about all of this court stuff. Do you think that usapa is winning?

You do understand that there will be no contract until this case is settled right?

If you think that you can just wait it out and collect snap back to make everything OK. Really should rethink that position.

As far as a February court date. That is what the judge set. We were relying on his time table.

"Do you think that usapa is winning?" Huh?..The last time I looked...not even so much as a single juror had yet been seated. How can any involved party be "winning" or losing at this point? You folks out there certainly seem quite desperate to fantasize that your yammering and opinions actually matter at all at this point.

As for any contract?; I'm not half naieve enough to envision one until management sees no choice in the matter. A host of factors play into the timing there. That your litigation affords them some potentially additional squirming time's a given. So what?...Seeking some sort of decoraton for that?

For snapbacks or not? = You're opinion there's as meaningless as mine/anyone's. The time for testing has not yet come, and it's yet to be determined how things will go.

"That is what the judge set. We were relying on his time table" Goody for you. Umm..feel excessively brilliant now?...for putting so much reliance on what others would easilly realize to be but a small part of an evolving protocol?..and subject to change in the process? No matter; at least briefly consider the "slight" possibility that much else of what you folks out there so easilly and instantly "rely on" may well be equally incorrect, utter fantasy. Time, and only time will tell the tale. Anyone could have made themselves a fortune during the last year-plus by simply taking the latest west "proclamations" of utter certainty.....and betting heavilly on the opposite outcome. We'll all see what happens in the future in the tried and true manner = know when it actually occurs.

 

[nostradamus]

The west looks at this from one angle, grab the Nicolau award and swing for the fence. The Nicloau fiasco is just one facet of the many "moving parts" that the judge mentioned when commenting on the west suit.

There is that pesky joint contract requirement and the lawsuit involving the west pilots illegal actions after USAPA was declared the legal representative of the Us Airways pilots. There is the MDA pilots lack of inclusion on the submitted list of pilots for consideration, any many more moving parts.

The East pilots tried to attain a workable solution to this complicated situation at Wye River, the west pilots from the sand lot told the east to pound it. This greed caused the furlough of 175 west pilots, their continued greed will result in the loss of jobs for those remaining.

 

[Metroyet]

Recent america west pilot update below, explaining how they went from 50 percent support to 100 percent to taylor their requirements for class action legal status, a miracle.

""It is amazing how the West pilots had to lose our name, lose our union and face the total abandonment of OUR former management in order to clearly define ourselves. Though the AWA pilots may not be unified on every conceivable issue, the challenges of this merger have cemented us together like nothing before. Prior to last week's update, Leonidas LLC had received financial contributions from just over half of our active pilot group. We thought that represented pretty solid support. However, once it was known that the judge would require Leonidas to turn over its contribution records (less the individual names), those who had been procrastinating with their money decided to no longer delay and effectively go on record (with their wallets, and not just their words) as supportive of our mission and the litigation effort. As of 2000Z on Friday, a super-majority, had materialized, and it appears now that it will not be long before we have achieved nearly unanimous financial support.


We stated at the onset of this mission that we would like to raise at least one-million dollars for the necessary legal battles that will be required to simply compel our adversaries to keep their word. We are well on our way, so please keep it up.""

Hardly a miracle. We simply used a communication tool that was developed by ALPA that luckily still exists. As I said before, it worked beautifully. IMO a certified class action lawsuit is unstoppable and is chugging in your direction. USAPA can delay all they want, but we're not going anywhere and you will be brought into a court of law to justify your actions. Sleep tight majority rulers..."core union values" will save the day for you.

 

[EastUS]

""It is amazing how the West pilots had to lose our name, lose our union and face the total abandonment of OUR former management in order to clearly define ourselves.

That IS amazing..in that most people are expected to define themselves in the normal course of simply growing up. What I've always found to be truly amazing are observations like "face the total abandonment of OUR management"...Umm..."OUR"?? Is it just my twisted little thinking..or does that at all indicate the almost unimaginable degree of naievete needed to have ever, even remotely, fantasized that Mr. Parker and clique ever actually "cared" about them? I certainly hope not, since that would have required the heightened, collective awareness of a colony of sea sponges.....

 

[Metroyet]

There is the lawsuit involving the west pilots illegal actions after USAPA was declared the legal representative of the Us Airways pilots.

We here simply call that the 100 thousand dollar JOKE.

be a good union pilot $$$$$$$

 

[Eastisleast]

The west looks at this from one angle, grab the Nicolau award and swing for the fence. The Nicloau fiasco is just one facet of the many "moving parts" that the judge mentioned when commenting on the west suit.

There is that pesky joint contract requirement and the lawsuit involving the west pilots illegal actions after USAPA was declared the legal representative of the Us Airways pilots. There is the MDA pilots lack of inclusion on the submitted list of pilots for consideration, any many more moving parts.

The East pilots tried to attain a workable solution to this complicated situation at Wye River, the west pilots from the sand lot told the east to pound it. This greed caused the furlough of 175 west pilots, their continued greed will result in the loss of jobs for those remaining.

When I grow up I hope all the answers in life come to me as easy as they do to you...Thanks for keeping us up to date on the way things "really are".

 

[nostradamus]

We here simply call that the 100 thousand dollar JOKE.

be a good union pilot $$$$$$$

Can you clarify your in house joke to the masses sir?