US Airways Pilots' Labor Discussion 4/2-4/8

[V1cut]

Well, during the Arbritration I certainly wasn't "thinking" about YOU!

Don't take my comments out of context. I was mearly expressing MY "thoughts" in that post about MY thinking about the result.

Beleive me, the first name you looked up when you looked at the Nic was yours so lighten up.

Do yourself a favor, stop preaching about how the west would "accept any outcome"....you guys can't and won't even participate in YOUR LEGAL UNION....that was and is a "legal outcome"....

and yet you have sworn to the death to avoid and destroy it..right?

Explain the difference...if you can.

 

[EastUS]

Like the East was/is amenable to notions that aren't DOH? Some seem to see integrety as doing what the East wants at any cost - a pretty narrow view...

Jim

I'd have been equally fine with length of service myself..but..thanks for the predictably, "pretty narrow view" nonetheless

 

[EastUS]

Believe me, the FIRST name you looked up when you initially saw the Nic was yours so lighten up.

That would, incorrectly, assume that I even looked at the nic list. The whole nic-nonsense hasn't ever been any "It's ALL about Meee!" business for me personally. Project away at your pleasure though ..and yes.."lighten up" would be gently suggested

 

[Waketurbulence]

That would, incorrectly, assume that I even looked at the nic list. Project away at your pleasure though ..and yes.."lighten up" would be gently suggested

There in lies the problem with you and most of your kind.

Didn't read the Nic? (The jury will)

Perhaps if you did, you would understand why he did what he did.

Here is what he had to say about the Arbritration and how he weighed the arguments....These are NOT the words of a "senile old man" but a highly respected and experienced arbritrator that both sides AGREED to.

"During the course of this proceeding, both sides referred to my words in the Federal Express/Flying Tiger merger following my receipt of the extensive exhibits, citations to other cases and final proposals from those parties.

There I said and, based on subsequent experience, say once again:

There are four basic lessons to be learned from those submissions;
that each case turns on its own facts;
that the objective it to make the integration fair and equitable;
that the proposals advanced by those in contest rarely meet that standard;
and that the end result, no matter how crafted, never commands universal acceptance.

It is understandable that universal acceptance is never achieved. The merged list cannot be a copy of any list that previously attained; other names now appear. Moreover, no matter the effort in minimizing unfavorable changes to career expectations, merged lists do change career expectations; it is in their nature that they do. It is equally understandable that merger committees find it difficult to reach agreement, choosing instead to turn to Boards such as this. Unlike advocates who go on to represent others in proceedings of a different nature, tomorrow and for many days thereafter merger committee members continue to fly side-by-side with those they represent."

 

[EastUS]

There in lies the problem with you and most of your kind.

Didn't read the Nic? (The jury will)

Perhaps if you did, you would understand why he did what he did.

The convoluted "logic" involved interests me not in the slightest. For an absurdly melodramatic making of that point = I've read Mein Kampf..and I understand the "logic" of even Adolph Hitler, and why he did what he did....I just don't agree with it being less than insane, unwholesome, and utterly immoral.

So...the jury's gonna' get to see the precious Nic Doctrine? this oughtta' be good ..and, here I'd thought that the west all claim that "Nic isn't on trial here"....

As for: "There in lies the problem with you and most of your kind." Umm.."your kind"?? Well..shucks good sir...I'm just another "fellow pilot", and one of nature;s little innocents myself, who didn't make the nic either....and is merely trying to make his way in this troubled world

 

[Waketurbulence]

..and, here I'd thought that the west all claim that "Nic isn't on trial here"....

It's not. But a binding arbritration and the attempts of a group to ignore it is.

The Nic, (award) in it's entirety, is just one piece of the mountain of evidence.

 

[nic4us]

ALPA did the math and found 4450 captain years transferred from East to West pilots using Nic. That amounts to around $225 million dollars based on the difference between captain and F/O pay. Don't forget the West pilots moving into widebody positions is worth another $200 million. And make sure you add in the reserve to blockholder difference of around $70 million. Be sure to add another 10% for the DC contributions. That totals around $540 million. Nicolau also said the first 700 furloughs after implementation should be East pilots. Of course schedule and time off is worth more to most pilots than pay so figure out what that is worth and add it to your "damages".

Where exactly in ALPA merger policy does it say the goal of integrating seniority lists is to invert the seniority lists and make the now junior pilots at the bottom give up their seniority to the new senior pilots

underpants

Underpants,

ALPA did not do this math. This math was done by an eastie possibly on the negotiating committe, who arrived at the numbers making some very rude, opinionated and incredibly wrong assumptions.

For instance, there are not 4450 captain years transfered from east to west using NIC. There might be 4450 captain years stolen from the West using DOH instead of NIC, but the true number transfered east-west would be exactly zero (0). The false assumption being that those were east positions in the first place, when in reality they were not. They belong to the West and that was simply affirmed by the NIC.

But thanks for adding it all up and putting into dollar values the amount the east is attempting to steal.

You will not find any mention in ALPA merger policy of inverting list, but you can find it in the promises of USAPA ala Bradford, Theur, and Seham.

 

[EastUS]

It's not. But a binding arbritration and the attemts of a group to ignore it is.

The Nic, (award) in it's entirety, is just one piece of the mountain of evidence.

Amongst said mountain of evidence are some interesting, and fully aromatic west fumits. Whichever way this goes...it'll be good for lot's of popcorn

Have a good one sir. Back to actual business for now.

 

[Waketurbulence]

some interesting, and fully aromatic west fumits.

I'm not quite sure what that means, but it sound's like something in Captunderpants' underpants....

 

[Waketurbulence]

Back to actual business for now.

Is that the actual business of telling everyone how right you are?

Good luck...

 

[EastUS]

The false assumption being that those were east positions in the first place, when in reality they were not. They belong to the West and that was simply affirmed by the NIC.

I just couldn't let this one go without a reply Let me see if I have this right? = These are all positions on east aircraft, from the east operation...am I on track so far?...and yet...per Nic..they "belong to the west"?? Umm..and this actually "makes sense" to you folks out there? Small wonder you're all such fanatical nicsters then Sigh..words simply fail to serve here :blink:

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Perhaps Wake will do what Prater should have done from the start, say "the list is the list boys and girls. Yes we can talk about how to live with each other, but to reiterate, the list is the list." Usapa has done more to undermine our relationship than anything else, period. Usapa as is has proven to be a disaster by literally any measure. In my humble opinion, that is.

Dream on

 

[ClueByFour]

It is almost tantamount to simply admitting just how much of a foul stench your west's, self-declared "Righteous Position" may actually leave in jurors' nostrils during any/all of this..should they actually get any whiff of it Try running: "My two months is worth more than your 17 years"....or "My 11 years should make me 'senior" to anyone with well over twice that" by any, even moderately decent people...and see what their response is...and, I think that's a bit scary for the west, hence?

You guys really are good for a chuckle.

Ever occur to you that even if Seeham were able to get that line of questioning in that the natural response from the West attorney is going to be to illustrate the very fact that the East list as it sits today (and before Nicolau) is not ordered by DOH?

I have to laugh every time the self-righteous trot out the "my two months is worth more than your 17 years" and "what decent people will think of it" especially because the East contingent is going to have to explain to the jury why that standard is good enough for the East list, but not good enough for the combined list.

Oops.

It's better than cable, really.

 

[Captain Underpants]

Underpants,

There might be 4450 captain years stolen from the West using DOH instead of NIC, but the true number transfered east-west would be exactly zero (0). The false assumption being that those were east positions in the first place, when in reality they were not. They belong to the West and that was simply affirmed by the NIC.

Sorry I can't help you as you are determined to make a fool of yourself.

We get it.....you all are innocent and so was O.J.

underpants

 

[EastUS]

I have to laugh every time the self-righteous trot out the "my two months is worth more than your 17 years" and "what decent people will think of it"

You're clearly blessed with an "interesting" sense of humor :blink: Explain, on the other hand..exactly how there's anything "righteous" about wishing to place said "two months' ahead of another's 17 years..or..would that also prove hopelessly and hysterically funny? At least we could fully agree on just how laughable that idea really is

PS: "It's better than cable, really." You must not have much viable diversity in your available channels. Perhaps you should consider satelite providers