US Airways Pilots' Labor Discussion 4/2-4/8

[nostradamus]

What...no link to something of dubious value to the current discussion. No remark about how much I supposedly "gained" from DOH? You're slipping, Nos...

Jim

Jim,

Evasive behavior shines the light on your being.

 

[EastUS]

Jim,

Evasive behavior shines the light on your being.

Well?..at least such behavior clearly confirms a deep background in Alpa

 

[nostradamus]

I do not gang up on a poster, good night.

 

[EastUS]

What...no link to something of dubious value to the current discussion. No remark about how much I supposedly "gained" from DOH? You're slipping, Nos...

Jim

Speaking of "dubious value to the current discussion" = Do you actually have any point to make here?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Speaking of "dubious value to the current discussion" = Do you actually have any point to make here?

If you'd read past what you quoted, you'd have seen the point. Evasion, anyone....

Wait...I'll correct that. If you'd read my post instead of just the small portion quoted by Nos you'd have seen the point....

Jim

 

[EastUS]

If you'd read past what you quoted, you'd have seen the point. Evasion, anyone....

Wait...I'll correct that. If you'd read my post instead of just the small portion quoted by Nos you'd have seen the point....

Jim

What I quoted was all that was actually posted at that time, in it's entirety...period. There's no possible way you would not know that.
Hmmm..."Evasion, anyone"??

Since you subsequently added the following; I'll respond:

"EastUS is the one that said that LOS would be "acceptable", despite those unwavering DOH principles (I guess throwing the junior few hundred under the bus doesn't conflict with those "principles). EastUS was the one who has said that DOH for the Shuttle pilots was "acceptable" - not their right according to unwavering principles but merely "acceptable". I never said that EastUS could have single-handedly changed the outcome. But for someone who claims to have a bedrock "principle" that the only fair way to integrate pilot groups is by DOH there sure is a lot of "accepting" other methods going on."

My supposedly "flexible" personal principals require real respect for what anyone's actually DONE. Yours, (and the west's) very clearly, do NOT. I'd personally find LOS acceptable, as it's also, to me, a reasonable measure of a person's actual contributions. There are problems with it though = What's the value of a person who's ill for year? What's the value of a furloughee's previous work performed, versus one with less time, but still on the line? I believe that overall, DOH best serves as an unquestionable, and easily quantifiable measurement of one's seniority within any given entity, class, craft/trade/etc. I do NOT have ANY beliefs that this "whatever the market will bear", hopelessly selfish, and to me = clinically insane BS of "relative" seniority" is anything but utter nonsense, on ANY level.

I also don't much hold with turning against my own coworkers/fellows, present or past.....while you've clearly not the slightest problem with doing that. Heck!, The only thing I can find to be at ALL admirable within the west contingent's their fiercely sticking together during all this. Some people, however, aren't even up to that 😉

Are we finished with "flexible" principals now? 😉

 

[nic4us]

I just couldn't let this one go without a reply 🙄 Let me see if I have this right? = These are all positions on east aircraft, from the east operation...am I on track so far?...and yet...per Nic..they "belong to the west"?? Umm..and this actually "makes sense" to you folks out there? Small wonder you're all such fanatical nicsters then 😉 Sigh..words simply fail to serve here :blink:

You are way off track. no..none..nada..zilch..zero...captain seats were, are, will be transfered east to west because of the NIC. Yet some east pilot comes up with a computer program stuffed with incorrect data and Captain Underpants flaunts it as gospel.

We are not talking east aircraft positions. We are talking all future vacancies, and the false assumptions used to determine misleading future statistics that are simply not true. This particular 4450 captain years statistic is absurd. It is no more ridiculous than me claiming "approximately 5170 senior captain years have been transfered West to east because of the NIC" but I can at least show you my math top 517 times 10 years (would have been 5 but age 65 and all).

 

[BoeingBoy]

Are we finished with "flexible" principals now? 😉

Since I finished my high school education many years ago, I've been finished with principals for a long time (and most of those I had weren't that flexible...).

I'd say you're still working on those flexible principles, though. How deeply held can they be if you're so accepting of alternatives (as long as such alternatives don't hurt your group). Apparently you've added to the flexibility - those deeply held principles must now give way to the desires of your fellow workers. I guess you'd have preferred the way the Empire pilots were integrated since it followed the desires of most of the PI pilots. Likewise, relative position was desired by most of the US pilots (over giving them their Eastern DOH), so I guess you bent your principles to fit those desires.

Jim

ps - when I posted my changes there weren't any later posts, so you and Nos must have been typing your replies. Since my post ended up being the last on a page, I can see how you missed the changes when you replied.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

I'd say you're still working on those flexible principles, though.

The very moment that I ever find myself ever striving mightily to undermine and sell out my fellows/coworkers, past or present....is the moment I'll take a proper lecture on "principals" from you

 

[BoeingBoy]

is the moment I'll take a proper lecture on "principals" from you

First, thanks for finally admitting that what's of utmost importance to you is what is best for your "fellow workers/coworkers". That's what I've been saying all alone - what is important to you is whatever will gain your group the most.

As far as principals, you'll get no lecture from me since I haven't had a principal since high school. You do realize that a principal is the person in charge, right...

However, regarding principles... you seen to have no restraint at all with lecturing others on principles merely because they disagree with you. I guess your principle against lectures excludes yourself. Chalk one more up to those self-serving principles you have... <_<

Principal

Function: noun
Date: 14th century

1: a person who has controlling authority or is in a leading position: as a: a chief or head man or woman b: the chief executive officer of an educational institution c: one who engages another to act as an agent subject to general control and instruction ; specifically : the person from whom an agent's authority derives d: the chief or an actual participant in a crime e: the person primarily or ultimately liable on a legal obligation f: a leading performer

Jim

 

[nic4us]

Sorry I can't help you as you are determined to make a fool of yourself.

We get it.....you all are innocent and so was O.J.

underpants

I am not innocent, I am responsible. I believe USAPA will shortly learn a different meaning of that word.

But speaking of making a fool of Oneself. Read your 5th grade explanation of why the sky is blue.

 

[EastUS]

First, thanks for finally admitting that what's of utmost importance to you is what is best for your "fellow workers/coworkers".

BS..really...is that your best shot? You choose to willfully, and completely disregard my observations that respecting the service performed by ANY others is the proper thing to do...whether or not it's personally convenient for myself or any of my fellows. If a west pilot's got more time on the job than an east? =S/He should go first in seniority...period. Is this truly too complex a concept for you to process?

If that's your best, however utterly feeble, attempt at defending whatever-tha'-heck it is that you do on this thread, by way of your clearly and obviously attacking the east people, your previous fellows, at every possible turn...well? = Thanks for playing. Send in the next contestant 😉

 

[BoeingBoy]

Does that mean that turning against your coworkers is ok if their desires conflict with your principles? Or is turning against them if they desire something other than DOH (like in the Shuttle integration) not allowed? Maybe you can post a decision tree so everyone will know when DOH is a fundamental principle and when it's not.

I'll now return you to your normal belittling, insulting posts...

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Does that mean that turning against your coworkers is ok if their desires conflict with your principles? Or is turning against them if they desire something other than DOH (like in the Shuttle integration) not allowed? Maybe you can post a decision tree so everyone will know when DOH is a fundamental principle and when it's not.

I'll now return you to your normal belittling, insulting posts...

Jim

1) Every man and woman must be guided by their beliefs. If yours contain no concern for your prior fellows...well..that's your issue.

2) Gee! Thanks!...But...sigh!..I'll miss your normal, belittling, insulting posts in the meanwhile

 

[BoeingBoy]

1) Every man and woman must be guided by their beliefs. If yours contain no concern for your prior fellows...well..that's your issue.

Let me see if I've got this straight (I haven't seen that decision tree yet)...even when DOH is detrimental to your "fellows" it's still your bedrock principle. Yet you have "concern" for your "fellows".

Or is it that your concern for your "fellows" take precedence over your bedrock principle that DOH is the only fair way to merge lists?

Your going back and forth is like watching a dog chasing it's tail - DOH is all thats important, your fellow pilots wishes are what's important, oops...it's DOH - nah...it's my fellow pilots. It must be a relief when the two coincide.

Of course, you could realize that being concerned doesn't exclude having a belief that a method of integration is fair even when it's not what they desire. Only those with huge egos would be foolish enough to believe that everyone should agree with them and their opinions.

If Nic had presented an award that put a West junior F/O ahead of an East captain, I'd be of the opinion that he was wrong. On the other hand, believing that it's unfair to place an East junior F/O ahead of West captains doesn't mean I'm not concerned about what the future holds for my "former fellows". It just means that I don't believe that they should get a windfall from the integration any more than the West pilots should get a windfall. No matter how you dance around it or dress it up, putting a junior F/O ahead of captains is a windfall.

Jim