US AFA Labor Thread

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

...the west FA discussion forum...

What site is this?

Not to pry but is the east allowed to visit?

 

[cactusflyer]

No, it's a secure discussion site for west FA's only. We had it going on long before the merger. You have to apply, your status is verified, then you can have access. Your real name isn't used, everyone has a screen name. Much like here, sometimes things get pretty mean. I signed up more to see what was going on with other reserves and a place to find trip trades.

 

[iheartairbus]

According to the ''rumor''.....

Mike Flores was in PHX negotiations and after leaving the AFA66 office in Tempe he left behind some sort of binder/folder or briefcase and in it contained some documents/piece of ''paper'' that Mike had been referring to for months and not letting anyone see it, some stuff apparently about USAPA and different stuff. So certain union officers for council 66... again this is rumor and they supposdly photocopied the paper(s) and another council 66 officer of the union didn't think it was right and called Mike Flores and told him what they did.

 

[beachboy]

So AFA West officers read and copied documents of Mike's? Thats like reading your sisters diary. Grow up. I am so sick of AFA bullcrap. Here in Philadelphia the officers are just as bad. All they do it sit and stalk people on catcrew and play switchboard. The whole place needs a wake up call.

 

[hula-flyguy]

So AFA West officers read and copied documents of Mike's? Thats like reading your sisters diary. Grow up. I am so sick of AFA bullcrap. Here in Philadelphia the officers are just as bad. All they do it sit and stalk people on catcrew and play switchboard. The whole place needs a wake up call.

Great analogy beachboy, it gave me a chuckle

 

[beachboy]

While serious it's really stupid. You have to shake your head and laugh. What were these documents is the question? What if it were someone's grievance or Mikes personal physician papers. It matters not it could be the recipe to KFC's Original Recipe written by the Col. Sanders himself. Doesn't make it right!
I applaud the AFA officer who had the moral fortitude to pick up the phone and inform Mike. We need more of that inside our union instead of everyone knowing the injustice while distaining the person but sweeping it under the rug not to make waves. Good for her!

 

[AZMtnFA]

While serious it's really stupid. You have to shake your head and laugh. What were these documents is the question? What if it were someone's grievance or Mikes personal physician papers. It matters not it could be the recipe to KFC's Original Recipe written by the Col. Sanders himself. Doesn't make it right!
I applaud the AFA officer who had the moral fortitude to pick up the phone and inform Mike. We need more of that inside our union instead of everyone knowing the injustice while distaining the person but sweeping it under the rug not to make waves. Good for her!

I'm new to putting info on this site, yet I have read it for years. I am a West FA and have been here for over 24 years. I wouldn't applaud the West AFA officer for moral fortiitude as you said in your statement. That particular officer does not have a good reputation here on the West. She is not professional and is seen as a trouble maker and very shrill. I remember that she has been involved with each movement to remove afa officers here in PHX. She had been complaining about our president and made it clear to anyone who would listen that she would not continue to work with the president. I was in the AFA office one day while she talked so bad about Flores it was amazing she was negotiating with him. The term moral fortitude does not come to mind when I think about this person.

It was also said and I hope someone can confirm this that the East mec did not endorse Mike going forward with filing charges since they knew this was a politic thing with the west officer who has it out for the president. The story also goes that Flores left his stuff all over the office table for days since he was not there traveling with the 1549 crew. Not sure if that is right, but that is what I heard.

I would not go and give the officer who took AFA politics outside the office. She would do anything to get rid of the president. Heard she walked around the afa office with a notebook taking notes about everything the president did. If there any truth that she is helping Flores, I would guess it's because if the west president is out office then the new president in the west would vote for Flores after our mecs blend? Does that make any sense who is in the know about East politics? I guess Flores can't keep his mec president's position after blending the mecs without the support of PHX.

This stinks and it stinks that this stuff is on a public site. Plays right into Doogie's hands by putting this stuff out there. I don't believe that anyone went into Flores case. Just knowing the officer who ran to Flores with the tale I would lay odds it did not go down the way she said.

JMO

 

[beachboy]

First,you have issues with an officer then you take out your bylaws and gather your options. You file charges with the AFA Ethics board or start a recall. Someone elected this person. Heck SOMEONE elected our officers in PHL over the years. Charlotte just doesn't care. CLT will elect a bean bag if it's on the roster and is good at crew cash pointers. Actually I wish they would it's better then what they have now.

 

[AZMtnFA]

First,you have issues with an officer then you take out your bylaws and gather your options. You file charges with the AFA Ethics board or start a recall. Someone elected this person. Heck SOMEONE elected our officers in PHL over the years. Charlotte just doesn't care. CLT will elect a bean bag if it's on the roster and is good at crew cash pointers. Actually I wish they would it's better then what they have now.

Not sure if I'm reading the tone of you message correctly. I will respond this way since I don't want to come across as sarcastic. I have been here since we voted for the union and that was about 1995. We never had more than one base so we had one set of union officers. We have had 2 very nasty recall drives that drove those presidents out of office. They were not bad people. Then there was the last election a year ago that was nasty.

The officer who ratted to Flores was heavily involved in all of those other uprisings. I did not vote for her this election. I can only guess she got elected cause she ran on a slate with the other 2 people. I think my crew buddies here on the west are tired of nasty and politics of personal attacks. The same type of attacks going on now. I know I just want a contract and most people I talk to want the same thing. Time for all to get over the East and West thing and just get to work to get a contract.

Just got an email from a friend who thinks this stuff is going on in order to put our old mec president back in office. The same person who the group voted out a year ago. This is going to get really ugly and the only people laughing is the Pep Boys Doogie and Kirby.

C.R.

 

[flybynite]

I can't imagine what's really going on. It sounds like there is more to this that just meets the eye.
And the rumor mill will not help matters. Trying to figure it out on a public message board will only skew the whole thing and you are correct about one thing. We don't need to air any dirty laundry in front of the company or the world either.
Let's try to keep this in house.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

According to the ''rumor''.....

Mike Flores was in PHX negotiations and after leaving the AFA66 office in Tempe he left behind some sort of binder/folder or briefcase and in it contained some documents/piece of ''paper'' that Mike had been referring to for months and not letting anyone see it, some stuff apparently about USAPA and different stuff. So certain union officers for council 66... again this is rumor and they supposdly photocopied the paper(s) and another council 66 officer of the union didn't think it was right and called Mike Flores and told him what they did.

If true then not good, The President of the LEC is married to a West pilot. Personal agenda overriding profesional judgment perhaps.

AFA66 has a history of ethical breaches. I kinda feel bad for the membership but they also have to bear some responsibility. These officers were elected for their dramatic and separatist stance.

Must have been blatant because Mike was very supportive of Lisa and the West's pay plight in the Crew News Videos.

Guess we may see another "stepping down to pursue personal interests" scenario soon.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

First,you have issues with an officer then you take out your bylaws and gather your options. You file charges with the AFA Ethics board or start a recall.

This has been done according to one of the AFA66 officers who is a person of interest. There will be a hearing with National.

 

[cactusflyer]

AZMtnfFA- So, it is FACT that an AFA officer "ratted" out these two? You're 100% sure he or she was the tattle tale? Hmmm, I'm hearing it was a member, not an officer. Gotta talk to my eastie contact on that one. It is clear by the use of the term "ratted" you are not unbiased in this situation and in fact, seem to agree that it is okay to take things that aren't yours and copy them. Wow, hope the easties don't think we are all that way, cuz we aren't. Frankly, I'm embarrassed to be a westie if ANY part of the allegation by Mike is true.


To everyone else,
Maybe I'm missing the bigger picture here, but could someone, anyone, please tell me when it IS okay to copy documents that don't belong to you, and then to lie about it? What is even more interesting is that they then turned around and admitted that they copied the papers and that they did it because Mike wouldn't give them copies. My guess is Mike has some pretty damaging information because he doesn't strike me as someone who would get in to a pi$$ing match with our little old council out here. I have to agree with Beachboy, I don't care what papers they were, they weren't theirs. Makes me wonder what else is going on in that office that we don't know about. Scary.

The more interesting question is to those westies that post on here, what if the shoe were on the other foot? Wouldn't you be screaming for Mike's head on a platter if he copied papers that were ours?

Also, if iheatairbus is right and they were papers from USAPA, then they were probably papers that shouldn't have just been copied and passed around. Wonder if USAPA knows and if they are pissed?

 

[AZMtnFA]

AZMtnfFA- So, it is FACT that an AFA officer "ratted" out these two? You're 100% sure he or she was the tattle tale? Hmmm, I'm hearing it was a member, not an officer. Gotta talk to my eastie contact on that one. It is clear by the use of the term "ratted" you are not unbiased in this situation and in fact, seem to agree that it is okay to take things that aren't yours and copy them. Wow, hope the easties don't think we are all that way, cuz we aren't. Frankly, I'm embarrassed to be a westie if ANY part of the allegation by Mike is true.


To everyone else,
Maybe I'm missing the bigger picture here, but could someone, anyone, please tell me when it IS okay to copy documents that don't belong to you, and then to lie about it? What is even more interesting is that they then turned around and admitted that they copied the papers and that they did it because Mike wouldn't give them copies. My guess is Mike has some pretty damaging information because he doesn't strike me as someone who would get in to a pi$$ing match with our little old council out here. I have to agree with Beachboy, I don't care what papers they were, they weren't theirs. Makes me wonder what else is going on in that office that we don't know about. Scary.


The more interesting question is to those westies that post on here, what if the shoe were on the other foot? Wouldn't you be screaming for Mike's head on a platter if he copied papers that were ours?

Also, if iheatairbus is right and they were papers from USAPA, then they were probably papers that shouldn't have just been copied and passed around. Wonder if USAPA knows and if they are pissed?

So you are assuming that Mike's version is right? Doesn't make sense and it's clear there is alot of info on both sides missing. I will give the West mec president and s.t. the benefit of the doubt. Mike Flores has political motive to want our president out. I do agree with the other person who stated we should not put this stuff on this site.

C.R.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

So you are assuming that Mike's version is right? Doesn't make sense and it's clear there is alot of info on both sides missing. I will give the West mec president and s.t. the benefit of the doubt. Mike Flores has political motive to want our president out. I do agree with the other person who stated we should not put this stuff on this site.

C.R.

Apparently it makes enough sense and there is enough info that Washington is calling AFA66 into a hearing.

Please be specific as to what political motive Flores has for wanting Lisa out. You may also want to take into account that it is Lisa and Jeff's political motives that could be the actual problem in this event.

Be a realist, the company knew about this long before we did so stop with the dirty laundry thing. This a a serious issue. I want a better return for my $43.00 a month than being represented by individuals who perhaps can't even get very basic right and wrong straight in their minds.