AFA Labor Thread Aug 27- Union Issues Here

[hp_fa]

I'm sorry but I'm not interested in PHLLAXPHL turns. You may be out accustomed to those dog trips out west but then you've only been organized since the mid-90s. You don't know any better.

That is insulting and it was unnecessary.

 

[ebwgs]

That is insulting and it was unnecessary.

It's the truth.

 

[ebwgs]

Stop hiding behind another union group and grow some G'damn man berries already.

Please keep in mind that for you to make this statement, that it is YOUR opinion of why people like myself who favor "Me-Too" hold the view point that we have. Speaking for myself, I am not hiding behind anyone or any other work group. Just because you feel that we are "hiding" behind another work group doesn't make it so. When a TA comes up for a vote then do your thing man/woman. If your viewpoint prevails then I'll have to live with it and vice-versa.It is what it is. And don't worry, I've got a serious pair of berries.

 

[theFLYonthewall]

CLT and PHL both have 8-10 hour one days, by way of the island turns. Guess what you have to have 25+years to hold them. Yes they can be SAPPED or picked up off of the ETB. I would venture to say the "fear" we have of negotiating over 10 hour days would be this company would find a way to run our butts up and down the East Coast for 10 hours then add a hurricane or northeaster snow storm to that and that 10 hours is now 12 plus an overnight because you can't get back into PHL or back down to CLT. NO THANKS.

I too will hold out to preserve the "me too" language because frankly the flight attendants are not a strong enough group to stand alone. It takes more then a handful to have a set of man "berries" to have solidarity.

I too will take my changes on a highly experienced East negotiating team vs a West team that has never negotiated a contract it appears all they know how to do is steal purposals from other unions then lie about. If they had any sort of integrity they would of resigned.

 

[WCT]

"West FA's" have only been unionized since 1994. They have only negotiated 1 maybe 2 contracts in their unionized lives, so I'll happily take my chances with the more seasoned east flight attendants that have a heck of a lot more negotiating experience. I'm not saying the east negotiators are perfect, but I'd rather dance with the devil I know for the one I don't know.

East flight attendants aren't "afraid" of "transcon turn days" but for many of us opposed to compromising the "Me-Too" we know that the relative "small percentage" of transcon turns that you allude may very well inflate to a greater percentage of transcon turns. I'm sorry but I'm not interested in PHLLAXPHL turns. You may be out accustomed to those dog trips out west but then you've only been organized since the mid-90s. You don't know any better.

As far as splitting, you say that "West FA's have to have it in there" as far as a new contract. Wrong. There are greater numbers on the east side. And if the east votes against it there won't be any splitting and the west will have to live with that.

Preserve the "Me-Too."

Oh my lord. Are you for real? US Westies "don't know any better"????? Are you kidding me? We can actually have great CRM, and sign into our own rooms on overnites. God forbid if we don't have the capt and FO there for our protection!!?? Give me a break! Transcon turns are here to stay, maybe just 1 day trips, but thank goodness! Jealous, we work like dogs, no, we just finish in shorter time, and have more days off, and not on RESERVE for YEARS!!!!!!
Would you rather be with your PILOTS and the STAGNANT RESERVE, International protected?? Rest provisions put in place, nothing under 9hours!!
Would you like to be doing your own thing, REAL TIME DROP PICK UP, FIRST COME FIRST SERVE, and enjoy a life for once?? Not a senior will affect your schedule, what is there is yours to pick up, change, and ON REAL TIME, no scheduler there to decide on staffing figures!!
Then vote for a single contract with the WEST!!

 

[flybynite]

Maybe he/she should have said "you don't know anything different." I think that's what was meant. There are those of us who have worked both. And we were so glad to get away from the transcon turns. They are nasty dog trips. And just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. And I know that people will disagree with me but it's just my opinion.

The airline industry as a whole is stagnant not just US and that will not change for the foreseeable future. Reserve will stay stagnant too. And I think the cure for that is to pay a higher minimum guarantee. And if I were you I'd set my sights on a better than 9 hr. minimum overnight. Go for 12. Or at the very least, start the clock after you arrive at the hotel.

 

[ebwgs]

Oh my lord. Are you for real? US Westies "don't know any better"????? Are you kidding me? We can actually have great CRM, and sign into our own rooms on overnites. God forbid if we don't have the capt and FO there for our protection!!?? Give me a break! Transcon turns are here to stay, maybe just 1 day trips, but thank goodness! Jealous, we work like dogs, no, we just finish in shorter time, and have more days off, and not on RESERVE for YEARS!!!!!!
Would you rather be with your PILOTS and the STAGNANT RESERVE, International protected?? Rest provisions put in place, nothing under 9hours!!
Or would you like to be doing your own thing, REAL TIME DROP PICK UP, FIRST COME FIRST SERVE, and enjoy a life for once?? Then vote for a single contract with the WEST!!

"Transcon trips are here to stay, maybe just 1 day trips..." What's so laughable about this is, if transcon turns are here to stay--I'm sorry but PHXPHLPHL is not coast to coast so it's not transcon as we back here know it--it'll be because the east voted and agreed to it. If we easties vote against compromising the "Me-Too" then there will be no coast to coast transcons sans deadheads. But what is truly laughable is the blind faith you seem to have in the company honoring contract language. You say "maybe just 1 day trips." Well, what if "maybe" not? What if there are 2, 3, 4 day trips built with this kind of brutal flying? And who's to say they have to be restricted to transcon? You folks are brand new to northeast flying. You haven't a clue as to how brutal it can be with the weather and congestion back here.

I'm not willing to negotiate major work rule changes on a "maybe." You feel offended when I write that due to the west's relative union inexperience that you don't know any better. When I read where a flight attendant is willing to compromise work rules that we here in the east have worked long and hard for out of some blind faith in contract language that the company is all too willing to ignore, I am thoroughly convinced that that is symptomatic of an inexperienced negotiating group that doesn't know any better. I worked for America West for years before I came here. I was there in the go-go days of the late 80s and early 90s. I know the culture there. And I'd rather take my chances on the experienced folks on the east side who have decades of experience negotiating contracts. Does our present contract suck? Hell yes it does. And we all know why. The west contract that you all detest was negotiated before the industry Armageddon that was 9/11. Our pre-9/11 contract was one of the best.

And btw, we can sign into our own rooms too. There's nothing in writing that says we can't, but if doing so makes you feel special then I'm willing to make that concession. And, as far as "enjoying a life" for once, when there was growth back here prior to 9/11 most of us had lives and flexibility. We don't need inferior work rules to have a life but a sustainable corporate strategy for long term growth. That will go further in enhancing our quality of lives than any inferior work rules.

Preserve the "Me-Too."

 

[WCT]

You sound very bitter. And you have NEVER worked on our Contract obviously. Good for you. I am really proud of you, and everything you have accomplished. "Me too" SUX.
Gee, just think how senior you would be if you stayed at HP, and have your old friends back!! More vacation, Holding Hawaii, and those Grand ole Transcons that you dearly miss!!???
We miss you too! Hope you will vote to split with PILOTS soon!!
God Bless America West!

 

[theFLYonthewall]

ebwgs-It will not matter, because once there is a merged agreement and PHX opens for transfers, the current PHX based flight attendants will not have enough seniority to hold onto their precious "transcon" turns. The resason I say that is because you can bet your sweet arse NO contract will be ratified that allows a first come first serve bidding system. Those trips will go so senior it will blow their minds. Let them whine all they want, their contract and work rules suck and they know it. Even our concessionary contract we work under right now pays our most junior flight attendants $10/hr more then them.

Our reserve system may suck but guess what, our reserves do not have to ask to be released after completing a trip nor is there tagging, nor are they at the disposal of a lineholder who wants to opt out of their last roundtrip. Our reserves also get to pick and choose trips they want from what is available at the time of processing. Please our OPR language far surpasses your "hot seat" language.

If there were growth in the industry we wouldn't be stagnet. As long as the airline industry continues to reduce capacity it will stay stagnet. Since the experienced East negotiators were smart enough all those years ago to negotiate scope language that requires the company to maintain a certain number of planes and flying which parallels the pilot language, there cannot be much more reduction if any on the East side.

 

[ebwgs]

You sound very bitter. And you have NEVER worked on our Contract obviously. Good for you. I am really proud of you, and everything you have accomplished. "Me too" SUX.
Gee, just think how senior you would be if you stayed at HP, and have your old friends back!! More vacation, Holding Hawaii, and those Grand ole Transcons that you dearly miss!!???
We miss you too! Hope you will vote to split with PILOTS soon!!
God Bless America West!

LOL! Bitter because I disagree with you on the "Me-Too?" Wow you sound quite defensive. FYI I wasn't a flight attendant at HP I was a lowly cross-brutalized CSR working on the ground. I was never a flight attendant there so I wouldn't have had all of the seniority you so glowingly allude to. As far as my old friends? We've all reconnected on facebook so I'm good there too.

Vacation? We'll get more in the next CBA. You're right about one thing: I am losing sleep about not flying Hawaii. I get sick thinking that instead of flying London, Paris, Rome, Madrid, Tel Aviv, Barcelona, Lisbon et al, I could be flying Honolulu. Now that you mention it, I guess I am bitter! :angry:

 

[ebwgs]

ebwgs-It will not matter, because once there is a merged agreement and PHX opens for transfers, the current PHX based flight attendants will not have enough seniority to hold onto their precious "transcon" turns. The resason I say that is because you can bet your sweet arse NO contract will be ratified that allows a first come first serve bidding system. Those trips will go so senior it will blow their minds. Let them whine all they want, their contract and work rules suck and they know it. Even our concessionary contract we work under right now pays our most junior flight attendants $10/hr more then them.

Our reserve system may suck but guess what, our reserves do not have to ask to be released after completing a trip nor is there tagging, nor are they at the disposal of a lineholder who wants to opt out of their last roundtrip. Our reserves also get to pick and choose trips they want from what is available at the time of processing. Please our OPR language far surpasses your "hot seat" language.

If there were growth in the industry we wouldn't be stagnet. As long as the airline industry continues to reduce capacity it will stay stagnet. Since the experienced East negotiators were smart enough all those years ago to negotiate scope language that requires the company to maintain a certain number of planes and flying which parallels the pilot language, there cannot be much more reduction if any on the East side.

You hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!

 

[WCT]

LOL! Bitter because I disagree with you on the "Me-Too?" Wow you sound quite defensive. FYI I wasn't a flight attendant at HP I was a lowly cross-brutalized CSR working on the ground. I was never a flight attendant there so I wouldn't have had all of the seniority you so glowingly allude to. As far as my old friends? We've all reconnected on facebook so I'm good there too.

Vacation? We'll get more in the next CBA. You're right about one thing: I am losing sleep about not flying Hawaii. I get sick thinking that instead of flying London, Paris, Rome, Madrid, Tel Aviv, Barcelona, Lisbon et al, I could be flying Honolulu. Now that you mention it, I guess I am bitter! :angry:

Glad you are honest. I am happy with my schedule this month. 20 days off with a 100 hrs pay. Of course most is vacation time. I am very excited about my Boise layover. Omaha is on my agenda too! Great. I love my job! Let US all merge the best of both worlds!! My guess is the pilots will NOT be in the PICTURE!!!
United we stand, American we fail.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

You sound very bitter. And you have NEVER worked on our Contract obviously. Good for you. I am really proud of you, and everything you have accomplished. "Me too" SUX.
Gee, just think how senior you would be if you stayed at HP, and have your old friends back!! More vacation, Holding Hawaii, and those Grand ole Transcons that you dearly miss!!???
We miss you too! Hope you will vote to split with PILOTS soon!!
God Bless America West!

Is there any chance that you could support your statements with with some additional AWA contract facts rather than falling back on shcoolyard taunting?

There are flight attendants who have worked with many different airlines under different contracts. They have the ability to make comparisons. You are making it sadly apparent that you are a cartel member who has truncated their own industry knowledge by constantly reassuring themselves that they have the best in the business yet only listen to themselves talk. Do you have any idea how tired even the rest of the West flight attendants are of hearing you all rabidly promote basing the foundation of an entire contract on one type of trip that benefits only the top 10% of the PHX base?

If you can't get your Head out of your Honolulu and consider the bigger picture at least try to tone down the Rah-Rah Nah-Nah style.

Thanks

 

[Travelpro72]

The bottom line is we should all hold off on making a decision about splitting until there is something of substance for all f/a's to look at. Until then it's just ignorance to say NO off the bat. I myself do NOT want to split but if the language is clearly written and improvements are made in not some but ALL other areas of the contract it may fly. As far as negotiating and closing all other sections and having language that allows for improvements to the current "me-too" items in the future is a gamble. Just as many don't trust the company to honor the contract language agreed to, I don't trust that the company would implement pilot improvements that were "me-too" items. THAT to me is also "dangerous territory". So for now I myself will hold off on saying YES or NO about splitting.

 

[ebwgs]

The bottom line is we should all hold off on making a decision about splitting until there is something of substance for all f/a's to look at. Until then it's just ignorance to say NO off the bat. I myself do NOT want to split but if the language is clearly written and improvements are made in not some but ALL other areas of the contract it may fly. As far as negotiating and closing all other sections and having language that allows for improvements to the current "me-too" items in the future is a gamble. Just as many don't trust the company to honor the contract language agreed to, I don't trust that the company would implement pilot improvements that were "me-too" items. THAT to me is also "dangerous territory". So for now I myself will hold off on saying YES or NO about splitting.

Fair enough.