Welcome to My Nightmare-AFA thread 12/8-

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

The grass is not always greener. I miss flying. I wish I could throw on my uniform and go on a trip. Anywhere.

Just don't forget all the glamor you're missing.

 

[N903AW]

The grass is not always greener. I miss flying. I wish I could throw on my uniform and go on a trip. Anywhere.

Be careful what you wish for. Stay where you are....this airline is a disaster.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Be careful what you wish for. Stay where you are....this airline is a disaster.

As bad as things can get around here it is the first time in several years,at this time of year, that I am not actively worrying if we will have have a job.

Be thankful for the small things and the big things... as I listen to Christmas carols.

 

[songbirdstew]

I just ran into a pilot friend of mine and he is 23 RSV captain. I spent 10 years on RSV, during the no hiring era, 1 hour call out, no invol's. Back then, no cell phones either, just had to find a pay phone within 15 min. I went back to school and got my master's degree because I knew the airline industry wasn't what I had signed up for. By the time my seniority is able to hold an international block, we will be 50-60 years old ourselves. Ask yourself, do you want that? Do you want to not make any money and be on RSV for a number of years? Maybe it's time to get out and go into teaching, or nursing or any medical field. By the time we are 55, what will our pay be? It's time to look at the long run, and not each month, am I getting a block. The job of a F/A is stress free, and that's why we love it! So degree money down the tubes. I love the job as a F/A, and RSV or no RSV, I'll be there. I'm smart enough to make a little extra money on the side while sitting on RSV. Good luck to all of you but ask yourself, what do you want? A stress free job (eventually) while you are a blockholder in the year 20??, or, do you want to make money and work 9-5 for a living? It will take years for the RSV contract to change into a rotating RSV or something like that. Ask yourself, do you want to wait?

You are smart to do what you did and I wish that more F/As had your confidence to go to school. As they were closing down the PIT base and I slipped lower and lower to the bottom with the last 3 years on RSV, I went to nursing school 3 days a week. I dragged my books & laptop all over the system and studied on my trips. No de-briefings for me and if it was a nice RON where I could lay by the pool, my school work was with me. It sucked. My family put up with a lot, I was exhausted for most of those 3 years BUT I graduated/passed my boards and now am an R.N.
I work PT at the hospital and fly 45-50 hours here. Everyone keeps asking me why I don't quit. For one, being an F/A is a whole different job when you don't rely on it solely to put food on your table. I actually enjoy it so much more now....even with the PIT/PHL commute. I will be doing both for as long as I can because of all the friends I have made here and it's nice to get away on a trip where I'm not at home cooking/cleaning/etc on my day off from the hospital.
The reason for this post is to say to anyone who will listen. BELIEVE IN YOURSELF and do what others have done and make flying a part time job. I started just taking one class a week until I had to do my clinicals 3 days a week. I got all my pre-reqs out of the way and had to retake classes that were too old from my previous Bachelor's....but it can be done.
Take the FIRST STEP by contacting your local community college and just take one class. You might find as I did that you enjoy doing something to better yourself and it gives you time for yourself too. USAirways is NOT the be all/end all.

 

[nycbusdriver]

As bad as things can get around here it is the first time in several years,at this time of year, that I am not actively worrying if we will have have a job.

Be thankful for the small things and the big things... as I listen to Christmas carols.

I agree.

And good advice.

 

[USPHX]

"

It's one thing for the West to arrogantly challenge the AFA bylaws in an attempt to circumvent seniority. It is quite another for their lack of collective bargaining experience and savvy to negotiate a contract that will in the long term serve to further compromise our work rules and way of life. We have given up enough on our own without the naivete of the US West side further exacerbating the effect of past concessionary contracts. Keep the me-too clause, and keep US-West on the collective bargaining sidelines!

Using that logic (savvy), we should have had a contract 3 years ago. Given the fact that Doug Parker, at age 47, is exactly one half the age of the average USAir (East) blockholder.

US PHX

 

[jimntx]

Everyone keeps asking me why I don't quit. For one, being an F/A is a whole different job when you don't rely on it solely to put food on your table. I actually enjoy it so much more now....

Amen, sister. Being a flight attendant is my 5th career, and I have an income from my investments (not so much lately) and my rental property. Since my basic bills get paid whether I fly or not, you are right, it is a whole different job. The financial stress of "will there be enough trips in open time," "will the people who put their trips in ETB (we call it HIBOARD) come to their senses and realize that there isn't a turn that has higher than 8 hours that doesn't sign in until 1000 and gets back before 1800" just isn't there.

I have said more than once that I do not see how people my seniority (7 years) live on what we make if this is their only source of income. I would not be able to take the stress--particularly with the commute from Dallas to St. Louis, and the attendant costs of a crash pad, etc.

 

[LCC_#1]

We've had caribbean turns that pay 88 hours for 11 days of work. It's not like we have no idea what that kind of flying is like. They went junior. You know why? Because no one is crazy enough to kill themselves getting in hours within a 24 hour period. Sure, you get more time at home, but it takes more time to recouperate from those trips. Those trips are popular to fill in your month, though. So, we already have caribbean turns which would satisfy those who wish to get in the maximum hours in one day. We have what the West likes in terms of productivity, and we also have the cap for safety.

Keep the ME-TOO. Our duty rigs are not negotiable, IMO.

BS!! High time turns go VERY senior. Give me a 10 hour turn and only working 8 days ANYTIME!! I DREAM of the day I can only go to this hell hole 8 days a month!!

ME SCREWED MUST GO NOW!!!!

 

[aredeeyou22]

BS!! High time turns go VERY senior. Give me a 10 hour turn and only working 8 days ANYTIME!! I DREAM of the day I can only go to this hell hole 8 days a month!!

ME SCREWED MUST GO NOW!!!!

I think the beauty of the FA group is that we all prefer different trips. If we drop the "me too", and negotiate the proper conditions and restrictions, life would be much better. Again, I ask, what protections do the pilots truly offer us anymore? We could negotiate our own duty day and takeoff/ landing restrictions if need be. We could even negotiate a ceiling for the high time one days/ transcon turns many of us would love. Time to think outside the box, and allow us to be more flexible. I'm tired of 19 hour 4 days and 9 hour two days because we are tied to the pilots. I want to work at work, and I want to maximize my days at home.

 

[theFLYonthewall]

If we go to a Pref bid, I don't see how we can be tied to the pilots. Unless they use the same pairings for us to build our pref bid line. The only problem I see with splitting from the pilots is more abuse of the flight attendants. Negotiating duty days/flight time max if fine, but they violate the contract now but cannot violate the FAR's which we are tied to the pilots. Imagine if all they had to be concerned about was the contract, they'd say grieve it and you would have to fly and deal with it later at a grievance hearing. Which is a slap on the wrist for the company. Ask some Piedmont flight attendants what think, they worked split from their pilots until US Airways came along. I know I have flown with some that say NO way they do not want to go back to that.

 

[Travelpro72]

If flight attendants at some of the largest carriers can operate separately from their pilots I don't see why we at Usairways cannot. True the company cannot violate FAR's but aside from that how's sticking with the pilots been working for ya? I say split with the guarantee that we negotiate the stipulations into the contract with room for no "grey areas". Having faith that AFA would negotiate such a thing is the problem though. Our group is not "outside the box" thinkers so.....

 

[legacy-to-LCC]

Having faith that AFA would negotiate such a thing is the problem though. Our group is not "outside the box" thinkers so.....

don't you mean that afa usairways is not "outside the BLOCK" thinkers?

 

[theFLYonthewall]

If you are asking me personally, how's it working for me? I don't have preferences either way, since this is the only way I have every known it works for me. I do not particular want the company to have anymore control over my life then they already do. My only concern is splitting is going to give the company the ability to abuse the flight attendants.

Another concern, with all of the capacity reduction taking place. Would splitting from the pilots create less lines for us, since we would be building them higher time? The block hours for the month are the same however if you break it apart differently, would the flight attendants end up with less lines? Don't forget with pref bid there will be no SAP, or secondary lines. You either hold a block or you don't. (That is my understanding, I might be mistaken.)

 

[LCC_#1]

I think the beauty of the FA group is that we all prefer different trips. If we drop the "me too", and negotiate the proper conditions and restrictions, life would be much better. Again, I ask, what protections do the pilots truly offer us anymore? We could negotiate our own duty day and takeoff/ landing restrictions if need be. We could even negotiate a ceiling for the high time one days/ transcon turns many of us would love. Time to think outside the box, and allow us to be more flexible. I'm tired of 19 hour 4 days and 9 hour one days because we are tied to the pilots. I want to work at work, and I want to maximize my days at home.

I couldn't had said it better! If we are so weak at 7000+ strong, we deserve all the bad we get!

 

[aredeeyou22]

If we go to a Pref bid, I don't see how we can be tied to the pilots. Unless they use the same pairings for us to build our pref bid line. The only problem I see with splitting from the pilots is more abuse of the flight attendants. Negotiating duty days/flight time max if fine, but they violate the contract now but cannot violate the FAR's which we are tied to the pilots. Imagine if all they had to be concerned about was the contract, they'd say grieve it and you would have to fly and deal with it later at a grievance hearing. Which is a slap on the wrist for the company. Ask some Piedmont flight attendants what think, they worked split from their pilots until US Airways came along. I know I have flown with some that say NO way they do not want to go back to that.

Good points, but, as Trav pointed out, most major airlines are not tied to their pilots, and are not constantly filing grievances. The key is for everyone, schedulers and FA's alike, to be educated and understand the rules of the contract. It amazes me how many of our FA's have absolutely no clue when it comes to the current contractual rules. If you don't know the rules, and don't carry your contract, you are going to be burned.

With respect to the FAR's protecting us, I have talked to many FA's at other airlines, and they have a negotiated duty day in black and white. Period. No room for misinterpretation. It is what it is, and you will not be required to fly over that.(*Think about it: when was the last time the pilots backed you up on the phone with scheduling?) Again, the FA's will have to educate themselves on these rules, because they won't have the pilots to lean on to take care of the mess.

Interesting discussion for sure, I just think we can be a heck of a lot more productive, with proper restrictions and work rules, if we separate.