AFA Labor Thread Aug 27- Union Issues Here

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Wow. You really don't believe that do you? Please do some grievance research before you try to sell that notion outside of these boards. If you think that the company will not violate our contract at it's whim and caprice to satisfy their ends, then you are either closet management posing on here as a line flight attendant, or a full grown Christmas romantic awaiting Santa Claus to descend your chimney bearing gifts. The constant disregard of our contract by the company is not just a business means to justify a corporate end, but, apparently is also a blood sport to boot. And, frankly, I can't blame them for trying. But I do blame us for not standing up.

Preserve the "Me-Too."

Oh no, I agree that the company abuses our contract. Believe me, I realize there are grievances out there. But I believe that there are certain things that they simply cannot abuse, unless the FA simply does not know the contract. For instance, (and these are JUST made up examples..)if we negotiate a maximum, say, 12 hour flight time on a transcon turn, then that can't be violated. If we negotiate, say, a maximum 16 hour duty day, that can't be violated. If we negotiate a maximum of, say 3 legs in any day scheduled over 8 hours of flight time, that can't be violated. If we negotiate, say, a minimum pay per day of 5+15, including splits, that can't be violated. If we negotiate, say, a %age of transcon turns per base, per day, that can't be violated. The only way it could be violated is if a flight attendant allowed the company to violate.

Unfortunately, there will always be grievances, and the Union will always interpret certain parts of the contract differently (Just look to the pilots and LOA93 in a few months-- each party reads it differently). This is not a valid reason for not splitting from our pilots. If the work rules are not negotiated in black and white, then obviously that would be a concern. Simply stating that splitting would not work because of what the company "could" do is shortsighted. Again, every other major airline that splits has a MUCH more complex and larger route system than US, and they seem to function productively.
 
What? Could you explain this?

Bottom line is this: If you negotiate solid work rules in a contract, and a flight attendant knows and learns those work rules, you are protected. The only way the company can circumvent those work rules is with a flight attendant crew that does not know their contract. Works at every other separated airline, everyday.

I'd be more than happy to explain (but only the nutshell version). Short story is company gave away in base trip to OOB RSV when in base RSVS were available. in base RSVs get a turn, out of base gets the remainder. When challenged by scheduling they said "it is what it is" you have a claim, "we are not changing anything". Or, in other words "fly it and grieve it". Its getting grieved. It shouldn't have happened. What do I do, refuse the trip and suffer disciplinary action? Hindsight! However it was not because I did not know the contract. I was offered NO other option except disciplinary action. They also assign OPR without going thru the list first and then go back assign OPR. Thats against the contract and thats messed up. But that's what happens EVERYDAY.
 
Let me be very clear about this. My original post was not about the "fear" of splitting with the pilots. It was mainly about how long can FA's wait for a single agreement? If you're waiting for the pilots to iron out their mess, then you are going to wait way too long.

The only answer is for the FA's to take their future into their own hands and leave the pilots out of it. It's very simple. Take a look at what the union has said about this....Mike Flores was very clear to state the conditions that must be met in order to split from those dorks.

Don't knock transcon turns, they are there for those that can get them and want them, yes they can be tough days, but if you want to pack in 29 hours in 4 days, go for it. If not, fine, you have options.

In some months, that high credit trip is way worth not spending your life at work.

Splitting from the pilots is not about long days, it's about our future and taking responsibility for ourselves.
 
Flight Attendant left Behind in Athens last flight, hisBirthday week end. 5 seats open in cabin, not allowed to use the jump seat what is it ? Company informed and Unnion informed .What is it USAirway it is in the pilot's FOM. It is not bad enough that he is a great flight attendant but his wife is also beatng a terrible bout with Cancer???????
 
Okay ladies and gents. We just heard that the company has made good on their promise to sell the E-190. Or at least 10....for now. Most of which are based out of PHL. The rest in CLT.

I'm sure the union office phones have been ringing off the hook today but has anyone been on the line with Mike yet about how this is going to impact our staffing?
 
Friends in PHL called the union and say 120 Flight Attendants for those 10 aircraft. The phones were hopping with people asking for leaves. UNion says they should get the # they need. Whole thing is total BS.
 
Well, well, well so we're selling 10 190's huh? Let's see so that would be about 320 f/a's +/- for all of the 190's? And just exactly who was responsible for all the language regarding the 190? Lovely.....juuuuuuust lovely. Do we think they won't find buyers for the other 15 jets? Of course they will as the a/c is viewed by the public as fantastic. Hmmmm get those VF forms ready girls.
 
OK so no one cared about the flight attendant left behind? We are just too selfish if it is not about you you guys do not care. Then you think you are only one person Thank God history will reflect that out of one persons energy lives were changed. Buck up even if your in the Union that garment will be shed one day. Individuals in the Union get worn out just from the spineless behavior we all exhibit...................Oh Well its just how it is .......................We will see what happens in Phoenix regarding Lisa's Recall another one bites the dust!!!!!!!!
 
Why? From what I hear, the PI FA contract was horrible.... reserves were constantly abused, and there was no contractual language protecting FAs from some pretty dastardly scheduling. What does that have to do with a contract being negotiated 20+ years later? The past is the past.

True at Piedmont we did not have 35/7 so they could fly us for all of our days on duty as reserves...BUT we had a guaranteed minimum day of 5+00 even if we just worked a flight GSO-CLT and DH back-----and our trips paid a lot. We used to have 28-30 hour 4 days trips and some months I was able to call out of time by the 14th of the month. I used to give up all my off days and fly every single day to get out of time and go home.
Yes we were separated from the pilots but I was OK with that. Everyone says that if we are separated from the pilots we'll be sitting around so much. WOW!! maybe that would actually give us time to get something to eat!! right now my life is board, work/fly, deplane, clean---no time to eat because the whole cycle starts again 5 minutes after I get done cleaning.
Bottom line people is that Mike did say we wouldn't split from the pilots unless we got something better. That something can be NEGOTIATED away from the pilots or we won't take it. period.
Everyone acts like the pilots are our lifeline...they've brought us down before and wouldn't hesitate to do so again if it benefitted them. PLUS---they'll be fighting their battle for years.Let's get on with a single joint contract for the entire F/A group and get the raises and better treatment that we deserve---both East and West---if not then when the tentative comes out vote no.
 
What? Could you explain this?

Bottom line is this: If you negotiate solid work rules in a contract, and a flight attendant knows and learns those work rules, you are protected. The only way the company can circumvent those work rules is with a flight attendant crew that does not know their contract. Works at every other separated airline, everyday.
All F/As should be carrying their contract and know it. That's why they pay 43.00 per month. Learn this phrase " I am not refusing to fly, I am refusing to break my contract as written on page ______ section______ ." I've used it many times over the years and there has been stunned silence on the other end of the line as they said OK and moved on to the next person.
 
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This thread has gone on for quite a while, so it's time for a new one. We are going to try two AFA threads-one regarding representation and union issues and the other working conditions, on board service, reserve, schedules etc.

Let's see how that works....
 
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