Welcome to My Nightmare-AFA thread 12/8-

[ggiby]

Eliminating the Me too clause would allow for more flight attendant lines. The lines would not be tied to the pilot lines so when they pull pilot lines out of base, the f/a lines would not be affected. Also, f/a lines could be built say at 80 hours, with mixed flying thus creating more lines. Overnights and legalities could be negotiated into the f/a agreement. In other words, get like most other airlines. Again, our current negotiating committee made up of senior f/a's could care less about things like this because it effects the more junior f/a's and not themselves.

Call your union, tell them you are fed up with the pace of negotiations and stop dragging their feet waiting for the pilot mess to cleaned up and negotiated. We deserve something NOW!

Post your facts...
how would it allow for more f/a lines???

your crazy....... over nites will be gone... you will have an eight hour overnite.... every nite...

you are a puppy ..... you have not been here as long as us... sorry but so true...
have a good night eom h34r:

 

[malikie]

So how do you think changing the me too clause will help the reserves????

From my understanding and I may be wrong but the FA group will not vote on a new contract until the pilots vote on theirs. This from what i was told is to ensure that the FA group gets just as good a contract as the pilots.



so you are delusional...

Not delusional. Not even a flight attendant


when is the last time you worked a 17 hour day with a 6 hour over nite???

At least 3 times a week.


All I hear though is how things need to change. But nothing is going to change until the FA group vostes in a new contract. Will the FA group take the lead and vote without waiting for the pilots or will they sit back and wait and keep complaining?

 

[malikie]

w/ out the me 2 clause I dont have to work more than 14 hours... w/o the
me too I have to go to 16 hours....

Who would work a 16 hour day?

West FA's can only be scheduled to work a 13 hour day and then go to 14.5. Anything over that is a up to the FA. If the FA volunteers to go over 14.5 then they are paid and an additional 7 hours pay.

 

[Furloughd4now]

have you ever worked a 15 hour day or more???

w/ out the me 2 clause I dont have to work more than 14 hours... w/o the
me too I have to go to 16 hours....

U people are miss informed.... and have know clue as your are a young airline.... and are
growing.... U know not what you are talking about...

and btw... how long have you been part of AFA...
not know where as long as us....

sorry IMOH

Sorry, you wanna run that past us again, in English? or perhaps without Vodca?

West FA's can only be scheduled to work a 13 hour day and then go to 14.5. Anything over that is a up to the FA. If the FA volunteers to go over 14.5 then they are paid and an additional 7 hours pay.

That is one of the biggest "Scams" the schedulers use to ruse you into working! NO ONE gets paid for it. FAs refuse it all the time. They scam you by saying it is "Projected block" which they can and do change at will. In addition, as I recall the duty time for "Volunteer" was over 15 or even 16. I KNOW you will "Quote" me if I am wrong.

when is the last time you worked a 17 hour day with a 6 hour over nite???

At least 3 times a week.

And as for "Malakie" you must not work here on either side. That's not true and you know it. Stop with the BS already.

I mean really, can we at least get a relatively educated (or even non-alcoholic based) reply here?

 

[malikie]

Sorry, you wanna run that past us again, in English? or perhaps without Vodca?



That is one of the biggest "Scams" the schedulers use to ruse you into working! NO ONE gets paid for it. FAs refuse it all the time. They scam you by saying it is "Projected block" which they can and do change at will. In addition, as I recall the duty time for "Volunteer" was over 15 or even 16. I KNOW you will "Quote" me if I am wrong.

Whats the scam? It is based off of the "Projected Push Time". Scheduling will call the FA's ask if they will volunteer to go over. If they say yes and they push after their projected push time they get the extra pay. And yes they do get paid. If the FA's say no they do not volunteer to go over thats the end of it. If they are in PHX they will be replaced by HOTS. If they are in LAS they will be rerouted. If it is in a outstatin the flight will be canceled. It does not matter to us one way or another here in scheduling if a crew will volunteer or not.



And as for "Malakie" you must not work here on either side. That's not true and you know it. Stop with the BS already.

For the record yes I am an employee of US Airways. And there is no BS. Is it hard for you to comprehend that others in this company can put in long shifts?

 

[YVINTERN]

Uh oh...

:cop: :cop: :cop:

Screw Trackers!!!!

 

[USCREW]

For the record yes I am an employee of US Airways. And there is no BS. Is it hard for you to comprehend that others in this company can put in long shifts?

You do not understand the nature of our jobs if you compare your shift to ours. If we are stuck on an aircraft for a very long time, we run out of food, water, and blue juice. Our working environment is completely different than yours. You may be a scheduler but you have a total lack of knowledge concerning how the FA contract translates into working reality for the flight attentdants. Working fatigued is not in the best interest of safety professionals. The Me-Too clause will keep the cap on duty and flight hours. The West seems to like their transcon turns but that's not my idea of a good line. We've had caribbean turns that pay 88 hours for 11 days of work. It's not like we have no idea what that kind of flying is like. They went junior. You know why? Because no one is crazy enough to kill themselves getting in hours within a 24 hour period. Sure, you get more time at home, but it takes more time to recouperate from those trips. Those trips are popular to fill in your month, though. So, we already have caribbean turns which would satisfy those who wish to get in the maximum hours in one day. We have what the West likes in terms of productivity, and we also have the cap for safety.

Keep the ME-TOO. Our duty rigs are not negotiable, IMO.

 

[4merresrat]

To the original topic starter; I notice your name is " "I want out" . .. seriously, if you are so miserable in your current job why don't you quit. No one is stopping you except yourself I assume. Why not cut the ties and possibly find a better opportunity for yourself?

 

[safety stud]

The question of AFA negotiating a merged contract eliminating the M-T clause is irelivant. The question should be "Do you have FAITH"? Do you have faith, AFA could get rid of the M-T clause AND negotiate duty rigs that make the give up worthwhile? Giving up the me too clause only benifits the company unless the flight attendants are protected from allowing the company to sked us to say back to back to back 14 hr. duty days because they can. And they would.

The present management has no qualms in making sked's that adhere to the finite letter of the contract. Look at the fiasco of Thanksgiving in CLT. Having a 4 day Int. trip worth 8+30 hrs. because they could. We are all frustrated with the present system. At least on the EAST... However, giving up the M-T, with all it's faults means you have to have faith in AFA in negotiating something better....

So, for us on the EAST, When was the last time we got something better? Can you remember... I don't...
Do you have faith in AFA in negotiating something better.... I don't...

Just my opinion...

 

[ebwgs]

"Overnights and legalities could be negotiated into the f/a agreement. In other words, get like most other airlines."

It is this chilling and disturbing inexperience in collective bargaining on behalf of the west that convinces me that as a group we are all better of if the West is seen and not heard at the bargaining table. The me-too is about us piggybacking the pilots' duty rigs. Without the me-too we have no rigs on our own. Why would the company agree to negotiate away "overnights and legalities presently mandated by me-too, only to re-negotiate it in to a new "f/a agreement?" Does the poster believe that the company would negotiate a me-too 2.0 to placate flight attendants? NO ONCE IT'S GONE IT'S GONE. What does the poster mean: "In other words, get like most other airlines." Those airlines including US West have no rigs. No thank you.

It's one thing for the West to arrogantly challenge the AFA bylaws in an attempt to circumvent seniority. It is quite another for their lack of collective bargaining experience and savvy to negotiate a contract that will in the long term serve to further compromise our work rules and way of life. We have given up enough on our own without the naivete of the US West side further exacerbating the effect of past concessionary contracts. Keep the me-too clause, and keep US-West on the collective bargaining sidelines!

 

[ganesha]

I just ran into a pilot friend of mine and he is 23 RSV captain. I spent 10 years on RSV, during the no hiring era, 1 hour call out, no invol's. Back then, no cell phones either, just had to find a pay phone within 15 min. I went back to school and got my master's degree because I knew the airline industry wasn't what I had signed up for. By the time my seniority is able to hold an international block, we will be 50-60 years old ourselves. Ask yourself, do you want that? Do you want to not make any money and be on RSV for a number of years? Maybe it's time to get out and go into teaching, or nursing or any medical field. By the time we are 55, what will our pay be? It's time to look at the long run, and not each month, am I getting a block. The job of a F/A is stress free, and that's why we love it! So degree money down the tubes. I love the job as a F/A, and RSV or no RSV, I'll be there. I'm smart enough to make a little extra money on the side while sitting on RSV. Good luck to all of you but ask yourself, what do you want? A stress free job (eventually) while you are a blockholder in the year 20??, or, do you want to make money and work 9-5 for a living? It will take years for the RSV contract to change into a rotating RSV or something like that. Ask yourself, do you want to wait?

 

[valuesrok]

The animosity being shown and east is better vs. west is better mentality is disturbing. The comment of "let's think outside the box" is truly appropiate. Think about it. The reserve system needs an overhaul, on BOTH sides as indicated by these posts:

In the meantime, we are on-call 24/hrs 6 days in a row. Can't pick-up because of 24/7 and the other "restrictions" placed on Rsvs.

along with reserves with hire dates from the late 80's-that's 20 years-good grief-what is right with that?!
The above is old US. At old HP, reserve assignments are 12 hour shifts, 0100-1300, 0700-1900, 1700-0300. F/A's with hire dates around 2000 are going back on reserve.

Please, let's educate ourselves with the facts. Here is a link to a F/A contract comparison done by APFA in 2006. http://www.apfa.org/images/contract/contract_comparison.pdf.

According to page 9, minimum rest, the HP minimum rest is actually greater than the US minimum rest. On duty limits, page 10, HP on-duty limits are actually lower than US on-duty limits.
I am NOT saying old HP is better or old US is better. I'm saying, check the FACTS and let's leave emotion at the door. Emotion does not pay my bills.

Our union leaders have these contracts AND others. They are trying to negotiate the BEST of BOTH and fix what does not work anymore and has flexiblity. Be open minded and agreeable to change. The contract is not being drawn for you specifically but for the betterment of ALL 9,000+ US Flight Attendants. Liken it to, we all do not agree on our hotel selection or uniform selection but we can each, individually, have something that works for us.

 

[4merresrat]

. . . I went back to school and got my master's degree because I knew the airline industry wasn't what I had signed up for. By the time my seniority is able to hold an international block, we will be 50-60 years old ourselves. Ask yourself, do you want that? Do you want to not make any money and be on RSV for a number of years? Maybe it's time to get out and go into teaching, or nursing or any medical field. By the time we are 55, what will our pay be? It's time to look at the long run, and not each month, am I getting a block. The job of a F/A is stress free, and that's why we love it! So degree money down the tubes. I love the job as a F/A, and RSV or no RSV, I'll be there. I'm smart enough to make a little extra money on the side while sitting on RSV. Good luck to all of you but ask yourself, what do you want? A stress free job (eventually) while you are a blockholder in the year 20??, or, do you want to make money and work 9-5 for a living? It will take years for the RSV contract to change into a rotating RSV or something like that. Ask yourself, do you want to wait?

Very smart. And very well said. Choices. It's all about choices.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I just ran into a pilot friend of mine and he is 23 RSV captain.

This is not a good comparison. For a pilot, years in service often have little bearing on whether one is a blockholder or reserve. We have pilots with over 30 years who are on reserve (CLT A330 captains), and pilots with less than 7 years who are secure blockholder (PHL E190 F/Os.) To a large degree, pilots can avoid reserve by changing seat and/or equipment. Except for a "brain fart" equipment bid that landed me on reserve for 6 months, I so far have spent all of my almost 30 years as a blockholder simply by choosing to stay in the "less glamorous, less lucrative" seat than my seniority would otherwise allow.

 

[USCREW]

Very smart. And very well said. Choices. It's all about choices.

The grass is not always greener. I miss flying. I wish I could throw on my uniform and go on a trip. Anywhere.