IAM Fleet Service topic 18 June-

[roabilly]

Hey Roa,

I think someone talked about getting a negotiating team ready for next year. I for one would love to see
someone with your knowledge on that team .

It would be an honor ‘O’...

As we all know... this would be our first real opportunity to fix the inadequacies that have plagued us since 99. I think it is important to convey that the membership will be doing the REAL negotiating. Hopefully, with input from our members, along with the resolve of our committee... this will be achieved.

 

[Tally yo]

Once again Prez sides steps many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why did you only vote to send 1 grievance to arbitration???? And you didnt even present it did you??? How come you dont provide names dates to your theory on the healthcare issue???? But you give Kudos for NH and ND for being instrumental on solving local issues. Prez, are you and RR friends? and how would things workout if RR was a temp AGC in PHX? CL has mentioned to District reps that he has no interest in running for such positions so who would you recommend for such position besides yourself, I would love to hear you voice on that issue as well.

 

[pjirish317]

Because I don't have the transcript I have no credibility? Like I said before, heard it from several people, not all of them running for office. Defensive is what you have been, not me.

Exactly how have I been defensive? All I am trying to do is get information. You won't or can't provide. You choose now to bring ths up when it happened last year. Why now? All you bring up is, "I heard it from several people". That really credible. You would also think that since D-142 had the lead, that if there was an offer, D-142, who had the lead here, would have been to ones to say yeah or nay. Not D-141. Tally-yo said it perfect. But I will give you one more chance. PM me with the name and contact info of your so called sources, and I will check for myself, othrerwise, let it go, you have no character or credability. And please don't let one of them be MW. Because he has tons of credability (do you notice the sarcasim here?) So what's it gonna be, will you accept or not? BTW the transript wouldn't have had the offer in it.

 

[The Janitor]

Once again Prez sides steps many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why did you only vote to send 1 grievance to arbitration???? And you didnt even present it did you??? How come you dont provide names dates to your theory on the healthcare issue???? But you give Kudos for NH and ND for being instrumental on solving local issues. Prez, are you and RR friends? and how would things workout if RR was a temp AGC in PHX? CL has mentioned to District reps that he has no interest in running for such positions so who would you recommend for such position besides yourself, I would love to hear you voice on that issue as well.

To recap, PJ had a right to get Prez to clarify his statement. Prez finally clarified and said he heard it third hand, no transcript, no facts, no nothing. His thirdhand obviously includes MW, KA and others skewing things. He also mentions NH and says NH was instrumental on here, while at the same time he refused to allow NH to see the membership while PR was walking around with those from the MemF team.

The thing that I'd like for you to clarify Tally yo is that you apparently have hit a nerve with Prez over a particular arbitration case. I have two questions for you. One, are you putting me on or did Prez only bring back one case to arbitrate? And you seemed to suggest that there was another case but I believe i missed your point. Prez quipped something about MM? What's going on?

As far as PHX, RR is the only one out in PHX that needs to be involved for the next two years IMO. Us members don't need a LC coming on here pointing upward and hammering the district, and we don't need another LC coming on here hammering his membership and the entire State of Arizona. Politics 101. RR has showed that he's the man out there from what I heard. Other west stations have shown that they can work with the District, regardless of how they vote, and those are the ones that I'd feel comfortable having my reps work with on the negotiations committee.

As far as the health care arbitration, thanks Tally yo, you seem to be in the know. I enjoyed my extra check and even though Prez is hammering it, bringing it to arbitration was the right thing to do and we still won.
end of lesson

 

[The Janitor]

Well. Tell ya what I will help you out so the PHX membership knows the
Truth. It was an AGC from the ND team that took care of those issues
So to the PHX membership be careful what you hear or should I say who you
Hear it from. RR can't take over fast enough out there

edit: post deleted

 

[necigrad]

are you putting me on or did Prez only bring back one case to arbitrate?

Yes PRez clarified that when I opined that I didn't know of any. Arbitration was a difficult card to pull back then because we were broke, and the Local didn't have the money for arbitrations, which apparently start at something around $10,000 per side.

Now, can y'all please stop bickering and bantering about what P Rez said or didn't say, knows or doesn't know? Last I checked he's not running for office. We've got people trying to start looking at negotiations, but instead 3-5 people are making this a 10 page thread on what he might have said or meant.

how bout a Mike33 or Bagfather or maybe even a necigrad type on the Negotiating team. That I think would give the West some REAL representation and some experience with out all that "whats in for me" attitude.

Thanks for the kind words, but I'm not a negotiator. I do think you might have a good concept though. Having only been through two "negotiations" (TWU for one, and the TA for the other) my experience has been that the tean is Union officials, mostly stewards and officers from the particular airline, plus a few officials from elsewhere. Maybe the Membership could choose a few members at large as well. Say you've got a 10 man team:

DL Pres (or someone else as Chair)
4 AGCs
3 Stewards
2 Members

This would provide the opportunity to include people that aren't "in the system", or those who know you can't do something because "That's not the way it works". It would provide a Members eye who's success doesn't' help his or her election chances or credibility with Management. They are the negotiating for their job and nothing more.

 

[The Janitor]

Thanks for the kind words, but I'm not a negotiator. I do think you might have a good concept though. Having only been through two "negotiations" (TWU for one, and the TA for the other) my experience has been that the tean is Union officials, mostly stewards and officers from the particular airline, plus a few officials from elsewhere. Maybe the Membership could choose a few members at large as well. Say you've got a 10 man team:

DL Pres (or someone else as Chair)
4 AGCs
3 Stewards
2 Members

This would provide the opportunity to include people that aren't "in the system", or those who know you can't do something because "That's not the way it works". It would provide a Members eye who's success doesn't' help his or her election chances or credibility with Management. They are the negotiating for their job and nothing more.

I don't know how the TWU did it (at AMR it seems to have Local Presidents on the negotiations committee) but your scenerio clearly isn't how RD does it. The ND has told us that they believe the Local Chairman should be mostly involved as opposed to the past practice of Canale, i.e., having the AGC's and a limited amount of station participation.

If you look at the UA negotiations team that RD put together you will get a good window of the team that RD will put together here. I believe there are 15+ people on the committee, the LC's of SFO, ORD, BUF, OMA, EWR, DEN, BOS, PHX, and probably a few more I'm missing. Throw in your VP's. And I think only one or two AGC's. Also, because of wanting to have a fair mix of stations, there are a few hubs, a few small stations, and a few midsize stations, that make up the committee. Obviously, not every hub, small station, and midsize station can be included.

That's alot different from Canale's AGC stacked negotiations committee with only a couple Local Chairman for good measure.

In our negotiations next year I'd probably guess that there will be somewhere between 5-10 LC from US AIRWAYS and maybe two AGC's and the VP's. I'm also sure it will be filled with likeminded members who have been elected by their membership as Local Chairman or AGC, and have worked with the District leadership. One thing I have never seen in any negotiations back when we were teamsters or now with the IAM is that NOBODY gets on that committee unless they are likeminded. Nobody puts anyone in a cabinet post that rubs salt into a wound. Doesn't happen in unions and doesn't happen in any political structure. Doesn't work that way.

The negotiations committee has limited spots so not every LC will be asked to participate.

 

[P. REZ]

Once again Prez sides steps many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why did you only vote to send 1 grievance to arbitration???? And you didnt even present it did you??? How come you dont provide names dates to your theory on the healthcare issue???? But you give Kudos for NH and ND for being instrumental on solving local issues. Prez, are you and RR friends? and how would things workout if RR was a temp AGC in PHX? CL has mentioned to District reps that he has no interest in running for such positions so who would you recommend for such position besides yourself, I would love to hear you voice on that issue as well.

Surely you know the structure of the TWU, you are fleet? The executive board which consisted of six members would vote on everything with the President only voting if there was a tie!!!!!!! I will not ever support ex-management trying to play union guy now. How about you??????

 

[700UW]

Arbitration's are around $3,000, not $10,000, the union pays, $3,000 and the company pays $3,000.

 

[P. REZ]

To recap, PJ had a right to get Prez to clarify his statement. Prez finally clarified and said he heard it third hand, no transcript, no facts, no nothing. His thirdhand obviously includes MW, KA and others skewing things. He also mentions NH and says NH was instrumental on here, while at the same time he refused to allow NH to see the membership while PR was walking around with those from the MemF team.

The thing that I'd like for you to clarify Tally yo is that you apparently have hit a nerve with Prez over a particular arbitration case. I have two questions for you. One, are you putting me on or did Prez only bring back one case to arbitrate? And you seemed to suggest that there was another case but I believe i missed your point. Prez quipped something about MM? What's going on?

As far as PHX, RR is the only one out in PHX that needs to be involved for the next two years IMO. Us members don't need a LC coming on here pointing upward and hammering the district, and we don't need another LC coming on here hammering his membership and the entire State of Arizona. Politics 101. RR has showed that he's the man out there from what I heard. Other west stations have shown that they can work with the District, regardless of how they vote, and those are the ones that I'd feel comfortable having my reps work with on the negotiations committee.

As far as the health care arbitration, thanks Tally yo, you seem to be in the know. I enjoyed my extra check and even though Prez is hammering it, bringing it to arbitration was the right thing to do and we still won.
end of lesson

NH never asked me to take him to the ramp. He may have asked JK. Am I mistaken or did the ND guys hammer the district when they initially ran in 2008?????? I guess it's ok if you get power but not otherwise????

 

[orioleman]

The following is based on what I understand.

That showed MW an incredible amount of respect and should have shown the membership that the New Direction guys were willing to work with whoever the membership voted in.

Janitor ,
just about right on all accounts except for one little slip up .. MW WAS NEVER ELECTED
BY THE MEMBERSHIP.. He was APPOINTED by RC himself. H*ll even his OWN station wanted him
banished and had to go over RC's head to the International to do it.
that's the facts and nothing but the facts..

Necigrad,
nice post. I think you bring up a VERY VALID point about having some "rank n file" on the team
with NO other agenda then getting a BETTER CONTRACT for the Membership which they are a active part of . Kudos on your points. Don't sell your self short.

 

[The Janitor]

Janitor ,
just about right on all accounts except for one little slip up .. MW WAS NEVER ELECTED
BY THE MEMBERSHIP.. He was APPOINTED by RC himself. H*ll even his OWN station wanted him
banished and had to go over RC's head to the International to do it.
that's the facts and nothing but the facts..

Necigrad,
nice post. I think you bring up a VERY VALID point about having some "rank n file" on the team
with NO other agenda then getting a BETTER CONTRACT for the Membership which they are a active part of . Kudos on your points. Don't sell your self short.

I think MW was elected as an AGC since he can't have a 4 year term without the membership electing him. Wasn't MW in for 6 years now? He did get alot of support in stations that he represents like PIT, PHX, LAX. His problem has been that he just doesn't work well with other AGC's.

 

[orioleman]

I think MW was elected as an AGC since he can't have a 4 year term without the membership electing him. Wasn't MW in for 6 years now?

I stand corrected . Yes.. He was appointed by RC to finish out a 2 yr term then was elected to a 4 yr
2yr's prior to ND08 . remember those days. When NO ONE was informed of nominations or elections
Education toward the membership was very shallow back then . so 10 people show up to vote for 1200
thats how MW got in . Did a couple of the good ole boys (consider membership) vote for him sure. but
it wasn't truly the VOICE of the membership .

The District has come a long way in a short period of time.

 

[The Janitor]

NH never asked me to take him to the ramp. He may have asked JK. Am I mistaken or did the ND guys hammer the district when they initially ran in 2008?????? I guess it's ok if you get power but not otherwise????

I didn't say it wasn't ok. Certainly there is room for expression of all types. The question is if you can cover, otherwise it makes no sense to alienate your station at such an important time.

end of lesson

 

[Tally yo]

Ohh the TWU structure where you broke ties... well didnt you bring cases back to the board for reconsideration to try and get ties to then get them voted off the arbitration list? And the one where it seemed no one ever took responsibility for scheduling the arbitrations bcuz they never got scheduled? you are the President if the board voted to send , SEND IT!! and schedule it!! As far as supporting ex management, if the membership respects them, and they have proven to be a good union rep, and the membership votes them in, how can i not? He was elected by his peers, and I will respect any ELECTED officer!! So does that mean you dislike RR? Bcuz you somewhat inadvertantly answered my question. Im not the type to hold grudges for people trying to do whats right, whats to say he became management found out how crappy it is in that position so he flipped and helped the union!!! Hows the LCs grievance office on property doing? Bet you hate being bothered all the time in there, unlike the office 5 miles away where you hid all day