Iam Fleet Service topic 5/21- merged topic

[The Janitor]

Mister Roabilly!

Why! Did someone invoke my name? Let's start with some positive feedback, it would appear Mr. Delaney was on the right track in protecting stations... it isn't a popular idea if the trade-off is less pay raises for others, but neither is a shrinking dues paying base for the IAM.

I am never quite sure why you think this is a "career orientated" position... one thing to just happen to be here for 30 years, but quite another thing if this is a "career" for which you can make lateral moves between firms without serious paycuts. I willl remind everyone to look introspectively and think that if US was to close tomorrow, what would be your income/"career orientaged" expectations as an individual with more than a decade to retirement? This firm does not need to close, but just be a victim of a Level 4 or just leave a mark on a plane or being "Swissported" from CMH, and where might you be?

I might need to defer to my furloughed LAS buddy, Cream Horn Pastry, if he thought taking the pay raise along with the subsequent increase in unemployment benefits was worth the so-called "job security" when he would have been furloughed from LAS regardless. Neither the TWU or IAM CBA's protected anyone's job due to the reduction in the flight schedule from LAS and CMH nearly a decade ago. You throw around the TWU's CBA as if it was bulletproof to job cuts, but avoid discussing what happened to CMH several years ago. Sincerely, I believe you are being more than a little iintellectually dishonest trying to use the "job protection" clause as an argument to the "fools" that decided to take a huge payraise in lieu of something of marginal value. For all the Easties who thought the TWU job security was so great, you should have offered to swap paychecks with one of the West rampers in exchange to vote against the T.A. being offered. After 5 years of a meager wage, I am sure you would have had a change of heart (or found a new "career orientated" position).

Maybe Cream Horn Pastry might stagger his way into an internet cafe and while signing in for his unemployment benefits, offer his views as to the trade-off for the job that he would have never been able to keep or a pay raise which gave him a 40% pay raise over a year? Tell me, honestly, Mr. Roabilly (and this goes for the all Easties who thinks the West were being fools to support that T.A.), if you were the one making $10/hour after 7 years with the TWU contract, and were presented a 50% raise in exchange for "job protections" which did not prevent furloughs, would you have voted against the T.A., knowing it might another 5 years or longer before you get the IAM payscale?

So Implores Jester.

Jester, the past is the past, what does your question matter? Looking forward, let's not blame management for actions that the majority agreed with. There isn't a bad guy here since there was a handshake.

 

[roabilly]

Mister Roabilly!

Why! Did someone invoke my name? Let's start with some positive feedback, it would appear Mr. Delaney was on the right track in protecting stations... it isn't a popular idea if the trade-off is less pay raises for others, but neither is a shrinking dues paying base for the IAM.

I am never quite sure why you think this is a "career orientated" position... one thing to just happen to be here for 30 years, but quite another thing if this is a "career" for which you can make lateral moves between firms without serious paycuts. I willl remind everyone to look introspectively and think that if US was to close tomorrow, what would be your income/"career orientaged" expectations as an individual with more than a decade to retirement? This firm does not need to close, but just be a victim of a Level 4 or just leave a mark on a plane or being "Swissported" from CMH, and where might you be?

I might need to defer to my furloughed LAS buddy, Cream Horn Pastry, if he thought taking the pay raise along with the subsequent increase in unemployment benefits was worth the so-called "job security" when he would have been furloughed from LAS regardless. Neither the TWU or IAM CBA's protected anyone's job due to the reduction in the flight schedule from LAS and CMH nearly a decade ago. You throw around the TWU's CBA as if it was bulletproof to job cuts, but avoid discussing what happened to CMH several years ago. Sincerely, I believe you are being more than a little iintellectually dishonest trying to use the "job protection" clause as an argument to the "fools" that decided to take a huge payraise in lieu of something of marginal value. For all the Easties who thought the TWU job security was so great, you should have offered to swap paychecks with one of the West rampers in exchange to vote against the T.A. being offered. After 5 years of a meager wage, I am sure you would have had a change of heart (or found a new "career orientated" position).

Maybe Cream Horn Pastry might stagger his way into an internet cafe and while signing in for his unemployment benefits, offer his views as to the trade-off for the job that he would have never been able to keep or a pay raise which gave him a 40% pay raise over a year? Tell me, honestly, Mr. Roabilly (and this goes for the all Easties who thinks the West were being fools to support that T.A.), if you were the one making $10/hour after 7 years with the TWU contract, and were presented a 50% raise in exchange for "job protections" which did not prevent furloughs, would you have voted against the T.A., knowing it might another 5 years or longer before you get the IAM payscale?

So Implores Jester.

Actually Mr. Jester...

I will not hold the west in contempt for their position on the last T/A. I respect the collective wherewithal of the Membership to guide us in the right direction. The west is an important and integral part of the Membership, thus I respect the concerns and input from the same. As I have stated many times... democracy will ultimately prevail for Fleet Service as whole.

I have made many attempts to objectively look at your arguments regarding career guidance. Unfortunately, I am unable to substantiate your current views as having enough validity to embark on a campaign to champion them. As far as most of the east is concerned it IS, and will REMAIN a career!

Until that dynamic changes through attrition, economic continuity... or even your favorite scenario...“closing the doors”... the Membership will INSIST on a career friendly agreement!

So ruefully reverberates reason...

RoaBilly

 

[charlie Brown]

Jester
To answer your question. do we on the east blame any of the west for voting yes on the last t/a. No we dont!!!! We know the money was to good for them to pass up. Many of us east employees did the same thing years ago during the Us airways, and Piedmont merger. They dangled the money in front of all the Piedmont employees and they took the bait then also. The company knows that money talks. The thing is that we on the east seen the same thing happening again, and we knew that a lot of the cities wouldnt ever be around to enjoy the pay. But like the janitor said. Its all in the past. As long as we all learn from the past, then hopefully we can get a first class contract to work under for a few years and secure the future ( if thats possible ) for all of us.

 

[orioleman]

It is time to put the past behind us, and get everyone on the same page for the next round of negotiations. Things to consider besides outsourcing protection should be...

A~ Definitive Merger and Acquisition Language that protects jobs, and seniority in the (likely) event of another merger.

B~ Straight Date of Hire seniority that is based on time in the classification. No grandfathered adjustments that penalize for part-time service within the classification.

C~ Improved Scope Language that eliminates the contractual ambiguities that are currently being exploited by the company.

Add more to this list if you want....

I’m sure my favorite medieval entertainer will have a tremendous amount of positive feedback regarding suggestions that will help to cement Fleet Jobs into a career oriented occupation with longevity!

So abrades...

BroBilly

ROA ,
all good points but keep one thing in mind. Until there is change in the leadership out
in PHX your spinning your wheels in the sand my friend. PHX needs people to EDUCATE their membership
and LEAD by example. here's one for ya. How bout the guy that says " I don't care about 401 k's or pensions. I'm only PT and don't plan on being around more than a year" .. Guess what I was one of those smart a*s kids many moons ago. SO my point is Until PHX membership LEARNS the importance of
scope and language / pensions/ health care etc. it doesn't really matter they will chase the 2.00 raise and B*tch about losing there jobs 6 mths later.
For crying out loud the poor souls weren't even EDUCATED on how to Properly vote .. Prez dropped the ball on that one . YOU have to vote for 10 if it says 10.. or else it don't count. Good example of
NOT Educating the membership .

 

[roabilly]

ROA ,
all good points but keep one thing in mind. Until there is change in the leadership out
in PHX your spinning your wheels in the sand my friend. PHX needs people to EDUCATE their membership
and LEAD by example. here's one for ya. How bout the guy that says " I don't care about 401 k's or pensions. I'm only PT and don't plan on being around more than a year" .. Guess what I was one of those smart a*s kids many moons ago. SO my point is Until PHX membership LEARNS the importance of
scope and language / pensions/ health care etc. it doesn't really matter they will chase the 2.00 raise and B*tch about losing there jobs 6 mths later.
For crying out loud the poor souls weren't even EDUCATED on how to Properly vote .. Prez dropped the ball on that one . YOU have to vote for 10 if it says 10.. or else it don't count. Good example of
NOT Educating the membership .

I hear yahh ‘O’...

All I will say is this... the mindset of us vs. them in terms of east vs. west is detrimental to ALL of us. I agree to your observation regarding west leadership (or lack thereof) as being a stumbling block for those of us who want this to be a long term occupation.

Perhaps... that is something that can be rectified through education.... perhaps not. It will be up to the Membership aggregate in the election of officers and representatives to make that happen!

PHX... choose your leaders wisely!

 

[orioleman]

Hey Roa,
what do you think of the revamped 141 page.



http://iam141.org/news/usa.html

 

[The Janitor]

ROA ,
all good points but keep one thing in mind. Until there is change in the leadership out
in PHX your spinning your wheels in the sand my friend. PHX needs people to EDUCATE their membership
and LEAD by example. here's one for ya. How bout the guy that says " I don't care about 401 k's or pensions. I'm only PT and don't plan on being around more than a year" .. Guess what I was one of those smart a*s kids many moons ago. SO my point is Until PHX membership LEARNS the importance of
scope and language / pensions/ health care etc. it doesn't really matter they will chase the 2.00 raise and B*tch about losing there jobs 6 mths later.
For crying out loud the poor souls weren't even EDUCATED on how to Properly vote .. Prez dropped the ball on that one . YOU have to vote for 10 if it says 10.. or else it don't count. Good example of
NOT Educating the membership .

Hey, let's just blame the entire state of Arizona. Sheesh.

 

[roabilly]

Hey Roa,
what do you think of the revamped 141 page.



http://iam141.org/news/usa.html

I think it’s great...this is precisely the type of communication medium that should continue to be developed and expanded! That was my biggest gripe with the Canale regime... no communication... no transparency! We are finally in the correct century!

 

[orioleman]

Hey, let's just blame the entire state of Arizona. Sheesh.

???? not sure where your going with that.. The industrial cleaner you use overnight

must have some strong vapors..