IAM Fleet Service topic 04Aug-

[wings396]

At this point it is vital for the company to remain profitable until our group gets to the table again. This is key, because if they are in a money losing mode again, fleet nor any other group will get squat out of them. It is sad to think that most of us would be happy to get back what we have lost in the last 7 years given that it was so much. The top rate of pay for fleet is barely above what it was 20 years ago, and we have lost 3 weeks of vacation at the top along with shift premiums, double time, pensions, and the crap of getting paid 1/2 a day for sick days. All of these items should be fought for and restored from the start. Many here haven't been around long enough to even realize what he have lost.

 

[mike33]

All of these items should be fought for and restored from the start. Many here haven't been around long enough to even realize what he have lost.

They wont ever know until we are restored period. Nothing here can help them to understand. I think they live in a world of being " Capped".

 

[roabilly]

I am not a proponent of basing negotiating strategies on short term financial performance. The Company is relatively savvy and creative with these issues in times of negotiations.

Trying to base your opinions on what we may, or may not be allocated in compensation from the Company based solely on their short term performance is futile. We need to set clear goals, adhere to those goals, and be unwavering in our stance.

These goals should be based on long term industry trends, and standards. None of us expect Pilot pay and benefits. What we DO expect... is to be rewarded, and compensated for the sacrifices we as Fleet Service made to save this company in its darkest moments.

Your contract will be locked in for the LONG TERM... so get right!

BRO

 

[Jester]

None of us expect Pilot pay and benefits.

My Dearest Mister Roabilly!

Shocked! Shocked that you would sell yourself short! Why not demand pilot pay and CEO pay and more! I thought about it even more when Wings396 posted, "It is sad to think that most of us would be happy to get back what we have lost in the last 7 years given that it was so much. The top rate of pay for fleet is barely above what it was 20 years ago, and we have lost 3 weeks of vacation at the top along with shift premiums, double time, pensions..."

I reflected back 20 years ago... bachelors degreed... second professional job... 50+ hours/week... no overtime.... no pension... only two weeks paid vacation... and far less than the top rate of fleet pay then or now. I cannot understand WHY US Air had financial problems starting 20 years ago!

Hey, I have an idea... let's just accept the market wage for services... oops, my bad.... who wants to make $9/hour? That's why we need our labor cartel, dammit! Curse those greedy, anti-competitive, corporate masters! Count me on the I'm A Monopolist labor ticket and demand DP's wages! This convenient capitalist will denigrate myself devoid of morals, principles or values while calling out the hypocrisy of others! The nerve of them!

So Rallies Jester!

 

[usfurloughed]

My Dearest Mister Roabilly!

Shocked! Shocked that you would sell yourself short! Why not demand pilot pay and CEO pay and more! I thought about it even more when Wings396 posted, "It is sad to think that most of us would be happy to get back what we have lost in the last 7 years given that it was so much. The top rate of pay for fleet is barely above what it was 20 years ago, and we have lost 3 weeks of vacation at the top along with shift premiums, double time, pensions..."

I reflected back 20 years ago... bachelors degreed... second professional job... 50+ hours/week... no overtime.... no pension... only two weeks paid vacation... and far less than the top rate of fleet pay then or now. I cannot understand WHY US Air had financial problems starting 20 years ago!

Hey, I have an idea... let's just accept the market wage for services... oops, my bad.... who wants to make $9/hour? That's why we need our labor cartel, dammit! Curse those greedy, anti-competitive, corporate masters! Count me on the I'm A Monopolist labor ticket and demand DP's wages! This convenient capitalist will denigrate myself devoid of morals, principles or values while calling out the hypocrisy of others! The nerve of them!

So Rallies Jester!

Rally ?????? Yeh ...yeah...yeh...blah...blah...blah

 

[roabilly]

Jester...

I'm still waitin' on that book number... any luck?

 

[Jester]

Jester...

I'm still waitin' on that book number... any luck?

My Dear Mister Roabillly,

If I wanted to be public with my identity, I would have used my real name or used a current photo. You will just need to accept that I am like you... mashing bags on the ramp just that I have the sheepskin. It would appear that no amount of impromptu ramper information I provide will be acceptable otherwise given your evidentiary standards.

So Castigates Jester.

 

[wings396]

My Dearest Mister Roabilly!

Shocked! Shocked that you would sell yourself short! Why not demand pilot pay and CEO pay and more! I thought about it even more when Wings396 posted, "It is sad to think that most of us would be happy to get back what we have lost in the last 7 years given that it was so much. The top rate of pay for fleet is barely above what it was 20 years ago, and we have lost 3 weeks of vacation at the top along with shift premiums, double time, pensions..."

I reflected back 20 years ago... bachelors degreed... second professional job... 50+ hours/week... no overtime.... no pension... only two weeks paid vacation... and far less than the top rate of fleet pay then or now. I cannot understand WHY US Air had financial problems starting 20 years ago!

Hey, I have an idea... let's just accept the market wage for services... oops, my bad.... who wants to make $9/hour? That's why we need our labor cartel, dammit! Curse those greedy, anti-competitive, corporate masters! Count me on the I'm A Monopolist labor ticket and demand DP's wages! This convenient capitalist will denigrate myself devoid of morals, principles or values while calling out the hypocrisy of others! The nerve of them!

So Rallies Jester!

Oh, now I get it. Because you didn't earn that much 20 years ago, and you didn't have more than 2 weeks of vacation nobody else should have either. I'm willing to bet that you didn't have more than a few years in at those jobs either.
Maybe we can get the cost of living to roll back to where it was 20 years ago, and everyone will be happy. My reference to the wages and vacation were those of the topped out 20 year+ people, not those at entry level. I seem to think that the starting rate of pay is a few bucks an hour more that it was 20 years ago, and the newer people hit their 3rd week of vacation a lot sooner than they once did. It may be just me, but I think that everything that I buy costs me more that it did in 1990. Just about everything that I can think of has increased in cost, with the exception of an Airline ticket. This industry has been selling it's product below the cost of operation for way too long, mostly due to the Greyhound carriers that have been popping up all over the place. I hope that a new car company starts up that will sell me a car for $5k in the near future. I think that most here could have understood not getting huge wage increases for the past 7 years, but taking away what someone has already had is a different story.

 

[Jester]

Oh, now I get it. Because you didn't earn that much 20 years ago, and you didn't have more than 2 weeks of vacation nobody else should have either. I'm willing to bet that you didn't have more than a few years in at those jobs either.
Maybe we can get the cost of living to roll back to where it was 20 years ago, and everyone will be happy. My reference to the wages and vacation were those of the topped out 20 year+ people, not those at entry level. I seem to think that the starting rate of pay is a few bucks an hour more that it was 20 years ago, and the newer people hit their 3rd week of vacation a lot sooner than they once did. It may be just me, but I think that everything that I buy costs me more that it did in 1990. Just about everything that I can think of has increased in cost, with the exception of an Airline ticket. This industry has been selling it's product below the cost of operation for way too long, mostly due to the Greyhound carriers that have been popping up all over the place. I hope that a new car company starts up that will sell me a car for $5k in the near future. I think that most here could have understood not getting huge wage increases for the past 7 years, but taking away what someone has already had is a different story.

Wings,

Like so many others on the board, you missed the point of my post... never sure it if is being deliberately obtuse or benign oversight.

You are living in the past of aviation workers' glory days... a time before de-regulation which carried on in terms of contracts 20 years ago. It was fun while it lasted for those who worked it then, but now it is a competitive market and no longer the "cost-plus" fare standards established by the CAB. Yes, those so-called "Greyhound carriers" are now firmly established as part of that market environment and they are not going away, so that's the new reality.

My point of referring my personal experiences was that even though I was working on my second professional job and earned my bachelors degree, I was still making less (not to mention vacation time, pensions, overtime, etc.) than the guy mashing bags. While you have suggested that I was comparing myself to the topped-out ramp agent, let's not forget that I was not being paid to attend college for those four years either, and in fact, it was costing the price of modest new car every year for this privilege. I would have loved to have made $10/hour to attend college, but that was my choice and my sacrifice with the expectation of a higher paying job later based upon market conditions.

Those who started in this business 20+ years ago had a windfall of economic prosperity due to regulation and their unions' abilities to negotiate higher wages in a non-competitive environment. Unfortunately, that is a non-sequitur in terms of higher costs of your desired goods and services today. As I said, I can see why US Air found itself in the beginning of financial trouble 20 years ago with its labor contracts as if the company was operating within a non-competitive environment, but now without the protections of the CAB or an oligopoly of legacy carriers with like contractual obligations keeping fares higher than what the new carriers could offer at a lower rate.

So Instructs Jester.

 

[usfurloughed]

Wings,

Like so many others on the board, you missed the point of my post... never sure it if is being deliberately obtuse or benign oversight.

You are living in the past of aviation workers' glory days... a time before de-regulation which carried on in terms of contracts 20 years ago. It was fun while it lasted for those who worked it then, but now it is a competitive market and no longer the "cost-plus" fare standards established by the CAB. Yes, those so-called "Greyhound carriers" are now firmly established as part of that market environment and they are not going away, so that's the new reality.

My point of referring my personal experiences was that even though I was working on my second professional job and earned my bachelors degree, I was still making less (not to mention vacation time, pensions, overtime, etc.) than the guy mashing bags. While you have suggested that I was comparing myself to the topped-out ramp agent, let's not forget that I was not being paid to attend college for those four years either, and in fact, it was costing the price of modest new car every year for this privilege. I would have loved to have made $10/hour to attend college, but that was my choice and my sacrifice with the expectation of a higher paying job later based upon market conditions.

Those who started in this business 20+ years ago had a windfall of economic prosperity due to regulation and their unions' abilities to negotiate higher wages in a non-competitive environment. Unfortunately, that is a non-sequitur in terms of higher costs of your desired goods and services today. As I said, I can see why US Air found itself in the beginning of financial trouble 20 years ago with its labor contracts as if the company was operating within a non-competitive environment, but now without the protections of the CAB or an oligopoly of legacy carriers with like contractual obligations keeping fares higher than what the new carriers could offer at a lower rate.

So Instructs Jester.

Blah blah blah...just another post of you being locked out by corp america..does your family know that they must settle for your beliefs of no value for the work you do?...mine knows that every day i am striving for better and not settling for just what is handed out. Dont worry ' Jester " you and " Freedom " will be right there to reap the benefit of the hard work and effort of our union to get as much as we can. Whatever that might be or in whatever way we need to accomplish that goal.........Hang on! Yes its going to be a ride.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Guess you dont realize fleet at US organized in 1995, 17 years after deregulation and didnt get their first CBA till 1999, 21 years after deregulation. So your post about CAB and regulation has nothing to do with Fleet Service's Wages, Vacations and working conditions. And 20 years ago, US was making money, bought PSA and Piedmont.

So States NYGiantsFan90.

 

[freedom]

Blah blah blah...just another post of you being locked out by corp america..does your family know that they must settle for your beliefs of no value for the work you do?...mine knows that every day i am striving for better and not settling for just what is handed out. Dont worry ' Jester " you and " Freedom " will be right there to reap the benefit of the hard work and effort of our union to get as much as we can. Whatever that might be or in whatever way we need to accomplish that goal.........Hang on! Yes its going to be a ride.

i resent the implication that i haven't ever done anything to further our unions goals ..i may not be the bus driver , but i'm out there pushing along with everyone else ... i went to the majority of the rallies and pickets that our union conducted during the last round of contract talks , and i'll be out there for the next round as well ...

 

[roabilly]

Guess you dont realize fleet at US organized in 1995, 17 years after deregulation and didnt get their first CBA till 1999, 21 years after deregulation. So your post about CAB and regulation has nothing to do with Fleet Service's Wages, Vacations and working conditions. And 20 years ago, US was making money, bought PSA and Piedmont.

So States NYGiantsFan90.

Right you are Fan...

The poster you responded to, along with one other....has a long history of attempting to sell us on the concept that we are paid too much...unworthy of a decent career... and we should be seeking employment elsewhere... yadda.... yadda... yadda....

Now ask yourself what logical FS member would make these statements?

These folks are attempting to convince us to give-up the fight... layover... take what we are offered! Honestly... do you really believe this propaganda is originating within the Fleet Ranks?

So illuminates...

BroBilly

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

No one in their own class and craft would speak of themselves and their coworkers like he does. Also Airline Workers are the second highest injury rate out of jobs in the USA.

 

[roabilly]

No one in their own class and craft would speak of themselves and their coworkers like he does. Also Airline Workers are the second highest injury rate out of jobs in the USA.

Thank you... when are they going to give up on this charade?
All of us see through it!