IAM Fleet Service topic 04Aug-

[mike33]

Well we can just shrug and bend over or we can actually fight for what we want. I'm not interested in the metrics of justifcation for what we do or do not "deserve". The whole of human history, business, politics, and war all boils down to the fight for resources and who gets what and how much. Executive management and the BOD are interested only in expanding their wealth, which they would happily do to the detriment of your household and hopes and security of your family. We can pretty it up with suits and seriousness and legalese but in the end it's just two dogs fighting over one prize.

I agree that current management is as shrewd as they come; when they know they can take they'll just keep grabbing for more and before you know it our collective backs are against the wall. Corporate America has effectively neutered the working classes of this country and convinced them that they should only expect to receive what their "superiors" determine they should; our media and crap educations have paved the way for several generations of unquestioning consumers and wage slaves.

People should feel the taste of blood and come to lust for it (figuratively speaking), and stand up and fight. Otherwise they can follow defeatist logic until it lands them in the greeter's position at Wal-Mart, or doing the same job they've done for years but suddenly at Express wages. I work hard and we as a work group have done everything we've been asked, met our goals, and have helped to make this underdog airline a top performer.

We should stop selling ourselves short, grow some teeth and a pair, and take what's ours.

AMEN


We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten. Don't let yourself be lulled into inaction. We lay somewhere inbetween...its up to the whole of us to decide just where that is.

 

[freedom]

hi , i'm a man of few words these days ...

i like jesters view points , not that i agree with everything he says , but diverse view points can make us stronger .. if you don't like what he has to say that's fine , but just because you don't want to cconsider his way of thinking doesn't mean the rest of the world will go along with you .

Well we can just shrug and bend over or we can actually fight for what we want. I'm not interested in the metrics of justifcation for what we do or do not "deserve". The whole of human history, business, politics, and war all boils down to the fight for resources and who gets what and how much. Executive management and the BOD are interested only in expanding their wealth, which they would happily do to the detriment of your household and hopes and security of your family. We can pretty it up with suits and seriousness and legalese but in the end it's just two dogs fighting over one prize.

I agree that current management is as shrewd as they come; when they know they can take they'll just keep grabbing for more and before you know it our collective backs are against the wall. Corporate America has effectively neutered the working classes of this country and convinced them that they should only expect to receive what their "superiors" determine they should; our media and crap educations have paved the way for several generations of unquestioning consumers and wage slaves.

People should feel the taste of blood and come to lust for it (figuratively speaking), and stand up and fight. Otherwise they can follow defeatist logic until it lands them in the greeter's position at Wal-Mart, or doing the same job they've done for years but suddenly at Express wages. I work hard and we as a work group have done everything we've been asked, met our goals, and have helped to make this underdog airline a top performer.

We should stop selling ourselves short, grow some teeth and a pair, and take what's ours.

don't get too ambitious , this is a horrible horrible enviroment to ask for contract increases .. fleet has done a good job , and i think we need to CONTINUE to do an even better job to show managment that we're worth some slight increases ... but yeah , no one should hold their breath for some awsome lottery ticket contract ...

 

[blownkneesbob]

just a few thoughts from an oldtimer with one blown knee out the door.
1st to the poster that was referring to the pilots and f/a's that has nothing to do with
fleet service. in years past each union bascially had an allotment allocated to them and that
was it. It was up to the union as to how they divided it up. that of course is in reference to monetary
benefits . work rules and company policy enhancements are a different story. so what the pilots
and f/a's get or don't get doesn't really effect the ramp group for the most part.
2nd As far as getting a few dollars more and off we go . that my friends is totally up to the group
of course the company is going to throw a few bucks out there and see if they can get any takers
Since the change in leadership I have seen a drastic change in my station in reference to unity
and that will be key when contracts are opened up . If everyone . East and West North and South
are on the same page and THE COMPANY KNOWS THAT then and only then will they sit down and
seriously negotiate.
3rd. it's obvious this jester poster is just going to complain and go against the tide to ruffle people
feathers. My advice is just ignore the guy and move on it .

 

[roabilly]

just a few thoughts from an oldtimer with one blown knee out the door.
1st to the poster that was referring to the pilots and f/a's that has nothing to do with
fleet service. in years past each union bascially had an allotment allocated to them and that
was it. It was up to the union as to how they divided it up. that of course is in reference to monetary
benefits . work rules and company policy enhancements are a different story. so what the pilots
and f/a's get or don't get doesn't really effect the ramp group for the most part.
2nd As far as getting a few dollars more and off we go . that my friends is totally up to the group
of course the company is going to throw a few bucks out there and see if they can get any takers
Since the change in leadership I have seen a drastic change in my station in reference to unity
and that will be key when contracts are opened up . If everyone . East and West North and South
are on the same page and THE COMPANY KNOWS THAT then and only then will they sit down and
seriously negotiate.
3rd. it's obvious this jester poster is just going to complain and go against the tide to ruffle people
feathers. My advice is just ignore the guy and move on it .

Excellent post Bro...

I’m in full agreement with you on every point. We are Fleet Service... we are not interested in what Pilots, F/A’s, or Mechanics may... or may not get.

What we are interested in is obtaining the contract that we deserve. This will not be determined by a few errant, unknown posters in here making profound predictions, and dazzling us with Bull S***!

It will first be determined by the resolve of the Negotiating Committee, and for the first time you will have real negotiators, not “lap dogs” doing this work.

Second... the tentative that is hammered out by this group will have to be ratified by the Membership. So basically you will make the decision... not Jester... not Me... not Black Magic... YOU!!

 

[Black Magic]

Some of you guys may not care what contract the Pilots and FA's get but the company cares! Managment has been laughing all the way to the bank having the 2 pilot groups seperated with different payscales with old US Airways pilots at the lowest in the industry of pay. They have been saving money all day every day with that setup and company would be even more in a worse state financially if they had a joint contract. The time to pay the piper is coming up fast with the pilots. The more money the company has the more that can go around to ALL employee groups its as simple as that. The company is not going to offer a contract that puts them in a cost disadvantage against the big boys airlines like Delta, new United, and American.

 

[charlie Brown]

People are living in a pipe dream on here if they ever think US rampers will be paid as much as SWA. Its a completely different company that makes money hand over fist and values its employeess. Thats just how it is folks, if you don't like it, get a skill and move on to other pastures.

Mark my words all that is going to happen on the next contract is a VERY slight pay increase in exchange for more outsourcing.

This is real smart!!! Go ahead and tell the company what you expect in a contract. We arent even close to swa airlines as far as pay. Seems to me we could get a pretty good pay raise based on where we are at now even if it dosent get us to swa pay. And pay isnt the only thing in a contract. We will be in section 6 negotiations for the first time in a long time. People need to get this scenario out of their heads that you have to give up something in order to get something. We should expect and demand to improve on all points of our contract. We arent in bankruptcy talks anymore. We have contract language, job security, vacation, holidays, pension, change of control, just to name a few. All of these things will determine if you get a good contract. NOT JUST PAY. In the end, we will get exactly what we settle for!!!!!!!!!

 

[necigrad]

We are Fleet Service... we are not interested in what Pilots, F/A’s, or Mechanics may... or may not get.

Yes we are, but that doesn't mean we are in our own little world. Every workgroup has their own specific things, but many items , for example health insurance, are valid for all. The pilots are no better then us, we are just as entitled to their benefits as they are, we just need to fight for them. Back in my West days the TWU contact had a "me too" clause for 401k contributions. If any workgroup got better we were to get it as well. More relevant now, if the mechanics get, say, contributions made for $100/year to the pension fund shouldn't we be entitled as well.

In addition to these examples, ignoring the other workgroups has another negative. We'd miss ideas for improvements. What if the FAs have a great idea in theirs for something that no one in FS had ever thought of. Why should we miss out due to ignorance?

 

[ChockJockey]

don't get too ambitious , this is a horrible horrible enviroment to ask for contract increases .. fleet has done a good job , and i think we need to CONTINUE to do an even better job to show managment that we're worth some slight increases ... but yeah , no one should hold their breath for some awsome lottery ticket contract ...

Maybe your contribution to the operation warrants a "slight" increase, but maybe you're wearing your goggles a bit too tight...

Ahh, the sky is falling, the sky is falling still is it? Horrible environment? Hard times?

You tell me not too get too ambitious; well in this horrible horrible environment I'd rather be ambitious than timid, meek, and modest. By your reasoning there's always some apocalyptic catastrophe just over the horizon, so maybe we should never ask for increases, right? Just cower and be polite about the whole thing, that's the American way of doing things right?

Now more than ever, in this horrible horrible environment, we need and should fight for a real, robust, contemporary contract to protect our work group, from management, from the rolling of the greater economy, and from those that would gladly give up their hard fought benefits, protection, rights and privileges for a little bit of job security.

 

[roabilly]

Yes we are, but that doesn't mean we are in our own little world. Every workgroup has their own specific things, but many items , for example health insurance, are valid for all. The pilots are no better then us, we are just as entitled to their benefits as they are, we just need to fight for them. Back in my West days the TWU contact had a "me too" clause for 401k contributions. If any workgroup got better we were to get it as well. More relevant now, if the mechanics get, say, contributions made for $100/year to the pension fund shouldn't we be entitled as well.

In addition to these examples, ignoring the other workgroups has another negative. We'd miss ideas for improvements. What if the FAs have a great idea in theirs for something that no one in FS had ever thought of. Why should we miss out due to ignorance?

Dude...

I think you have misconstrued the meaning of the statement... what if we go into negotiations ahead of the other work groups? What if we reach a tentative ahead of the other work groups? What if we ratify an agreement ahead of the other groups?

Unfortunately, all the work groups won’t cooperate, and negotiate as a collective entity. I wish that this was possible as we would fare much better that way. Fortunately, we do have the M&R group with us to degree. However, they too will negotiate separately on a separate CBA. The question is... who goes first to see what the previous group negotiated so they can compare results, and then possibly use these results in negotiations?

We can not base our negotiations strategies on other work groups. We will take “Me too” language that benefits Fleet Service when we can get it. I’m pretty sure the Pilot group is not anguishing over what we may negotiate, nor should we reciprocate that sentiment.

 

[The Janitor]

Well we can just shrug and bend over or we can actually fight for what we want. I'm not interested in the metrics of justifcation for what we do or do not "deserve". The whole of human history, business, politics, and war all boils down to the fight for resources and who gets what and how much. Executive management and the BOD are interested only in expanding their wealth, which they would happily do to the detriment of your household and hopes and security of your family. We can pretty it up with suits and seriousness and legalese but in the end it's just two dogs fighting over one prize.

I agree that current management is as shrewd as they come; when they know they can take they'll just keep grabbing for more and before you know it our collective backs are against the wall. Corporate America has effectively neutered the working classes of this country and convinced them that they should only expect to receive what their "superiors" determine they should; our media and crap educations have paved the way for several generations of unquestioning consumers and wage slaves.

People should feel the taste of blood and come to lust for it (figuratively speaking), and stand up and fight. Otherwise they can follow defeatist logic until it lands them in the greeter's position at Wal-Mart, or doing the same job they've done for years but suddenly at Express wages. I work hard and we as a work group have done everything we've been asked, met our goals, and have helped to make this underdog airline a top performer.

We should stop selling ourselves short, grow some teeth and a pair, and take what's ours.

That post should be copied and posted in every breakroom. It should also be saved. Great post and how true.

 

[roabilly]

That post should be copied and posted in every breakroom. It should also be saved. Great post and how true.

AGREE! I used to think CJ was against us... no more!

 

[roabilly]

This is real smart!!! Go ahead and tell the company what you expect in a contract. We arent even close to swa airlines as far as pay. Seems to me we could get a pretty good pay raise based on where we are at now even if it dosent get us to swa pay. And pay isnt the only thing in a contract. We will be in section 6 negotiations for the first time in a long time. People need to get this scenario out of their heads that you have to give up something in order to get something. We should expect and demand to improve on all points of our contract. We arent in bankruptcy talks anymore. We have contract language, job security, vacation, holidays, pension, change of control, just to name a few. All of these things will determine if you get a good contract. NOT JUST PAY. In the end, we will get exactly what we settle for!!!!!!!!!

Right you are Mr. Brown...

Some folks here have a “special vested interest” in taking a position of submission! Fortunately for us (Fleet Service), the Negotiating Committee will not carry this theme to the table.

The cheerleaders of negativity will have the football pulled from their running punt at the very last moment!

So engages the opposition...

BroBilly

 

[freedom]

Right you are Mr. Brown...

Some folks here have a “special vested interest” in taking a position of submission! Fortunately for us (Fleet Service), the Negotiating Committee will not carry this theme to the table.

The cheerleaders of negativity will have the football pulled from their running punt at the very last moment!

So engages the opposition...

BroBilly

While i'm a bit of a pessmist ( HUGE PESSMIST ! ), i'm also cognizant that fleet does have tremodus pull at the negotiating table ... just because the economy is bad doesn't mean we're out of tricks in our black bag .... i'm simply of the postion that we should be fair to the company and they should be fair to us , and that we should all strive as honestly and earnestly as possible to arrive at a middle ground ....but if my postion should be ignored then the rabble rousers will of course have my support ( within limits ) ...

 

[necigrad]

i'm also cognizant that fleet does have tremodus pull at the negotiating table ... just because the economy is bad doesn't mean we're out of tricks in our black bag .... i'm simply of the postion that we should be fair to the company and they should be fair to us , and that we should all strive as honestly and earnestly as possible to arrive at a middle ground ....but if my postion should be ignored then the rabble rousers will of course have my support ( within limits ) ...

Freedom, the last two years of your posts really did happen. You can't take them back now. All your comments about how US wouldn't be here are proving false; our planes (which still are flying) are in the sky, which is in it's proper place above us NOT fallen. Two years ago you said we had no pull and had to take what little we were offered.

I also disagree with your perspective that "we should be fair to the company and they should be fair to us". Quite simply, had THEY been fair to the employees there would be no need for a Union to be fair to them as it wouldn't exist! In addition to that logic, the Company will fight to give a bare minimum token. We need to fight for more. I don't care if the Company is "barely afloat" or some other analogy; the Company won't give us lots (the whole pie) extra when things are great, so we must FIGHT for much (half the pie) and not settle for no improvements (no pie for you).

 

[freedom]

Actually I predicted that we will not be here half way through next year. Like I said I'm a pessmist , let's wait and see.