US Pilots' Labor Discussion 10/27-11/?

[Reed Richards]

The reason none of our international captains were asked to attend fuel school, was twofold. One, they did not need it, and two, according to our contract, they would be paid for it.

"International Captains." Boy, that one flew over your head. But I guess I forgot about your trips to Cabo and back. Of course they did not "need it."

RR

 

[Reed Richards]

Very good read.

You east guys want to spin this for me?

No spin, just a little color. Having seen the name associated with the essay I could read no further as vomit filled my mouth. I really mean that, so maybe I will look foolish for writing this having not read the article. Baker violated the trust of hundreds of U pilots in his actions. I personally had his word face to face he would not do what he did without our pilots having a vote. It has taken him almost 5 years to surface, only now, and after quitting the airline (over 20 years seniority) in shame to go to work for Air Tran in Atlanta.

I appreciate you guys wanting to know what makes us tick out East, but the area of retirement loss is one you will never grasp, especially on a web board with links to the likes of 320's little garden. That is not a dig at you, it’s just not going to happen. You won't "get" this one unless you lived it..and you sure won't get it from anyone with apron strings attached to ALPA.

I am glad the BPR left you guys out of the assessment on this matter...they would have been well in their rights to include you. But they did the right thing and did not. Maybe you can forgive them for buying two 20K Ford Taurus's to use in CLT. I am sure the "guys in the back of the van" have!

RR

 

[HPDriver]

...so maybe I will look foolish for writing this having not read the article.

Of course you look foolish. A thoroughly accurate, fact-filled piece is there to read and you refuse to read it.

Your aversion to facts is not surprising, though, as that shortcoming runs rampant amongst the east pilots.

 

[Reed Richards]

" A thoroughly accurate, fact-filled piece " I will take your word for it. But not so with your post. I did not say I refused to read it, I said I could not. Perhaps we could place reference numbers on your posts (meaning HP FA, Aqua, you, and a host of others.) Final and binding, shortcomings of East pilots, old gray hairs, etc. Then we could skip them all with an easy glance.

My recent observation is there is a bit of hair trigger with you all lately, you are lashing out at some pretty benign posts. What could possibly be giving you all pause? Perhaps some interesting news out there, as yet unreported?

I will save you the response..just say # 6, (we saved you) and conserve the bandwidth. As to "the news," we can simply refer to East Scope as #1, to save time for you all. Bular was correct when he said the seniority issues would soon be moot..he just missed the month.

RR

 

[Metroyet]

Bular was correct when he said the seniority issues would soon be moot..he just missed the month.

RR

Do you say that with "supreme confidence"?

Stack Bular's alleged comment up there with DOH, Snap backs, and the retrieval of the full cash value of your long ago dumped pensions.

Please say Hi to the Cheshire Cat for me while you're down there.

 

[Reed Richards]

Do you say that with "supreme confidence"?

Stack Bular's alleged comment up there with DOH, Snap backs, and the retrieval of the full cash value of your long ago dumped pensions.

Please say Hi to the Cheshire Cat for me while you're down there.

Bular.."film at eleven," DOH.... "Yes," snaps.... "who knows," and pension "not a chance." As you well know, my posting it here makes it so.

RR

 

[oscarjazz]

No spin, just a little color. Having seen the name associated with the essay I could read no further as vomit filled my mouth. I really mean that, so maybe I will look foolish for writing this having not read the article. Baker violated the trust of hundreds of U pilots in his actions. I personally had his word face to face he would not do what he did without our pilots having a vote. It has taken him almost 5 years to surface, only now, and after quitting the airline (over 20 years seniority) in shame to go to work for Air Tran in Atlanta.

I appreciate you guys wanting to know what makes us tick out East, but the area of retirement loss is one you will never grasp, especially on a web board with links to the likes of 320's little garden. That is not a dig at you, it’s just not going to happen. You won't "get" this one unless you lived it..and you sure won't get it from anyone with apron strings attached to ALPA.

I am glad the BPR left you guys out of the assessment on this matter...they would have been well in their rights to include you. But they did the right thing and did not. Maybe you can forgive them for buying two 20K Ford Taurus's to use in CLT. I am sure the "guys in the back of the van" have!

RR

An ERISA defined benefit plan can only be distress terminated by a federal bankruptcy judge. You don't get a vote on a judge's order. Vote away, but it doesn't matter when the judge bangs that gavel and says "so ordered". You only get a vote on any contractual returns or changes as a result of the court ordered termination.

I read the article and having been through Chapter 11 and having my own pension terminated, it seems like a completely believable account. Obviously I can't verify any of his story, but it sounds eerily similar to the conditions at Delta.

The biggest mistake I see the East pilots make is relying on rumors crew room "experts" and ignoring facts and real experts. Well, and also listening to a really bad lawyer.

Quit looking for a boogey man to blame your problems on, it is not this pilot's fault, it is not Nicolau's fault, it is not Wake's fault. You have faced a bad run, no dispute, the East reaction has only made things worse.

 

[Megasnoop]

Now this is an interesting read. Link

If you say so. just consider the source. A senior C/O, ALPA FPLer who quits Us Air to pursue other opportunities.

on another subject, since your connected with the PHX legal scene, any reason why Don C Stevens pulled out of the Addington Lawsuit and he's not on the Polsinelli/Shugart web site? Did he actually work there, or just bring them the case? Pursuing other opportunites?

 

[HPDriver]

If you say so. just consider the source. A senior C/O, ALPA FPLer who quits Us Air to pursue other opportunities.

Did you actually read it?

 

[hp_fa]

Perhaps we could place reference numbers on your posts (meaning HP FA, Aqua, you, and a host of others.) Final and binding, shortcomings of East pilots, old gray hairs, etc. Then we could skip them all with an easy glance.

It's easier than that. Click on "My Controls" and once there, on the left side, you can mange your ignored members. Add me to the list, I don't get paid nor worry about who reads and doesn't.

 

[nic4us]

"International Captains." Boy, that one flew over your head. But I guess I forgot about your trips to Cabo and back. Of course they did not "need it."

RR

No, I knew what you were implying, that the West pilots have no experience with such matters, and therefore have no room to comment. I knew your misguided superiority complex would cause you to take the bait.

The Cactus call sign has been used from Nagoya to Riyadh and points in between. While most of these "International captains" have retired, some remain to fly more domestic routes such as Anchorage and Kahului.

Funny you should mention "Cabo", is that not now done by east crews with a minimum rest layover in an all inclusive resort, because the West contract does not allow such a short rest period?

Perhaps another full page ad, explaining to the public, how the east pilots have championed their safety by walking out of contract negotiations and remained on min pay, min rest, min work rules.

 

[hp_fa]

on another subject, since your connected with the PHX legal scene, any reason why Don C Stevens pulled out of the Addington Lawsuit and he's not on the Polsinelli/Shugart web site? Did he actually work there, or just bring them the case? Pursuing other opportunites?

When I reviewed the fee application in the trial court case I noticed that Don Stevens was listed as "Of Counsel", meaning that he was not a member of the firm, but working in connection with the firm. I do not know if he previously was an actual member of the firm, or had always been "Of Counsel". Perhaps a review of the letterhead from previous correspondence from Polsinelli Shughart would answer that question. I have no correspondence from them, so I cannot respond more fully.

 

[Reed Richards]

It's easier than that. Click on "My Controls" and once there, on the left side, you can mange your ignored members. Add me to the list, I don't get paid nor worry about who reads and doesn't.

No no no. I could not give up my best form of entertainment...I just want a little more back and forth without sifting through the same chaff over and over.

Part of the magic that occurs here on this forum the fact you can say something enough times and it becomes true. I have to counter your slogans with equal might, otherwise the outcomes will be determined only by your posts, without mine mixed in. This is serious work, much more work in fact than actually being a member, joining a committee, running for Rep, or (Heaven forbid) actually voting.

By the way..the "My Controls" reference is #14. I get tired of that one too.

RR

 

[Reed Richards]

No, I knew what you were implying, that the West pilots have no experience with such matters, and therefore have no room to comment. I knew your misguided superiority complex would cause you to take the bait.

Guess I had that one coming, I was indeed making a dig, but only at a lack of your widebody flying.

Although I have my concerns about our cockpits ever mixing, I can still put my head down and sleep in the back in any of our metal, East or West. So it you even thought I was commenting on experience I apologize.

And you are correct in the Cabo substitution. That is not a good thing for any of us.

RR

 

[ClueByFour]

No no no. I could not give up my best form of entertainment...I just want a little more back and forth without sifting through the same chaff over and over.

Can you assign the USAPA propaganda numbers as well? It'll ease the burden on the rest of us.