E
AWA ALPA Thread week of 9/21--9/27
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
- Status
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
Hardly...he's got a nicer/kinder/gentler outlook on alpo than I do
Which for starters means that there would simply be no end to my magnanimity at their demise.
prechilill
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2002
- 2,544
- 3,406
They are both near the same old age, I would guess. It is entertaining how many <_< :blink: :down:
:huh: these guys throw in their posts. They seem to be having a bout with USA320's obsessive poster disorder today.
E
EastUS
Guest
They are both near the same old age, I would guess. It is entertaining how many <_< :blink: :down:
Glad you like the cutsie emoticons
They seem to fit the atmosphere nicely to my thinking = How does one even attempt to take you kids seriously? "A continual source of amusement"
b737fo
Senior
- May 8, 2007
- 288
- 31
These weekly ALPA threads have become boring with the same people (apparently myself included) on each side rehashing the same arguments. Then, predictably, they end up degrading into the now typical name calling and sarcastic filled posts that are really just a waste of bandwidth. I am putting myself in the cornfield for a while as I can see how much time I now waste going through repetitive posts to find something new and intriguing. See you ladies and gents later. Happy flying and get out a little this weekend if you are not working. b737fo is out for now.
I understand the "unity" thing.No. Our signatures are different.
We just both happen to be pilots on the seniority list from different blocks of the list but with a strangely similar mindset. I don't seem to recall what galvanized our unity. Oh yeah, now I remember.
I am asking because the bitter writing style and overuse of
and and etc., plus the lack of any substance in the posts (all there are are insults of ALPA and the West pilots) under the two handles are identical.Just curious.
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
I understand the "unity" thing.
I am asking because the bitter writing style and overuse of
Just curious.
You read things of no substance and then spend the time to respond?
And even though the posts have no substance, you begin your post confessing that you understand the unity? You undersand that which has no substance? Wow! I haven't evolved that far yet.
And not only do you respond, but you respond.... twice. Care to make it three times. Only if you still understand of course.
Latest one...
In a series of votes, ALPA’s Executive Council today passed four resolutions that address issues raised in the ongoing merger of US Airways and America West.
The resolutions settled four outstanding issues:
1) The Council made a firm commitment to support a fast-track negotiating strategy to raise the pay of AAA pilots in order to achieve pay parity with AWA pilots and to achieve major raises (pay parity plus) for both pilot groups. These negotiations—which will move AAA and AWA pay rates beyond current AWA levels—will be conducted by the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC). Specific terms for timing and retroactive payment will be negotiated by the JNC.
2) The Council found that there was no basis to set aside the seniority arbitration award issued in May by an arbitration board. The Council concluded that no evidence of impropriety or failure to follow ALPA Merger Policy had been presented. ALPA will now defend the award. The award is to be submitted to management as issued, but with the proviso that it will have no effect until the parties complete a single collective bargaining agreement.
3) The Council confirmed that the $2 million previously approved from the Major Contingency Fund to support AAA and AWA pilot groups is for strike preparedness, communications, and family awareness activities directly attributable to joint negotiations. Upon resumption by the AAA MEC of participation in joint negotiations, the MEC can submit a communications plan and MCF budget that will allow it access to the funds.
4) The Council determined that there was no basis under the ALPA–US Airways Transition Agreement to contest the operation of US Airways under a single FAA operating certificate with separate operations that keep the aircraft and pilots of AAA and AWA apart until completion of a single collective bargaining agreement.
These actions came after months of presentations, debate, legal analysis, and communications with the MECs and line pilots. The focus will now turn to the next round of joint negotiations to achieve an improved CBA for all pilots at US Airways.
In a series of votes, ALPA’s Executive Council today passed four resolutions that address issues raised in the ongoing merger of US Airways and America West.
The resolutions settled four outstanding issues:
1) The Council made a firm commitment to support a fast-track negotiating strategy to raise the pay of AAA pilots in order to achieve pay parity with AWA pilots and to achieve major raises (pay parity plus) for both pilot groups. These negotiations—which will move AAA and AWA pay rates beyond current AWA levels—will be conducted by the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC). Specific terms for timing and retroactive payment will be negotiated by the JNC.
2) The Council found that there was no basis to set aside the seniority arbitration award issued in May by an arbitration board. The Council concluded that no evidence of impropriety or failure to follow ALPA Merger Policy had been presented. ALPA will now defend the award. The award is to be submitted to management as issued, but with the proviso that it will have no effect until the parties complete a single collective bargaining agreement.
3) The Council confirmed that the $2 million previously approved from the Major Contingency Fund to support AAA and AWA pilot groups is for strike preparedness, communications, and family awareness activities directly attributable to joint negotiations. Upon resumption by the AAA MEC of participation in joint negotiations, the MEC can submit a communications plan and MCF budget that will allow it access to the funds.
4) The Council determined that there was no basis under the ALPA–US Airways Transition Agreement to contest the operation of US Airways under a single FAA operating certificate with separate operations that keep the aircraft and pilots of AAA and AWA apart until completion of a single collective bargaining agreement.
These actions came after months of presentations, debate, legal analysis, and communications with the MECs and line pilots. The focus will now turn to the next round of joint negotiations to achieve an improved CBA for all pilots at US Airways.
B
BottomFeeder
Guest
Yes AWA320
You will be my USAPA brother very soon.
Don't forget to pay your dues so you will be able to vote
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
Has anyone from the East stopped to consider what has emboldened ALPA National of late? I mean look at this - they're going to sit at the table in your absence, negotiate on your behalf, and then forward a TA to the East for a vote. National may be an organization completely disinterested in representing rank and file pilots, but it's not a stupid organization. The events from the EC the last two days are the culmination of a comprehensive analysis of the East situation and a formulation of a shrewd course of action which is best for National. JNC talks will proceed regardless of East participation, a TA will be sent to the East rank and file and it will pass so long as Doug hits the numbers. Bank on it!
Special MEC Chairman's Message
September 21, 2007
Fellow America West Pilots:
We are scheduled to meet with management next week to continue joint negotiations in Washington, D.C. As you are already aware, the US Airways MEC recently passed a resolution prohibiting its negotiators from participating in joint negotiations until such time as management provides the US Airways pilots with immediate pay parity with the America West pilots. At this time, we expect only management, ALPA, the America West JNC, and me to be present at this meeting. We anticipate receiving Sections 5 (Expenses), 14 (Sick), 27 (Insurance), and 28 (Retirement) from management, and possibly continue receiving management’s explanation of the Scheduling (25) and General (26) sections. I am told by our negotiators that management’s last proposal on Scheduling met many of our concerns and was clearly written in a manner that would lead to a Tentative Agreement (TA) in short order.
When one takes a step back and reviews what management presented during the last few negotiating sessions, it is clear from their signals that they want to conclude this negotiation in a timely manner. That means that now is the time to refocus our resources and energies toward completing this joint agreement. With this in mind, the America West MEC convened in an all-day session today to discuss our plans going forward. The MEC reaffirmed our belief that the only way to protect all America West and US Airways pilots from potential management whipsawing is through a joint contract.
Our MEC also unanimously affirmed the notion that for us to succeed, the contract must provide significant pay improvements for all pilots retroactive to no later than September 1, 2007, and committed to continuing Rice Committee talks, which are designed to address career progression and job security protections for all America West and US Airways pilots.
To be plain, at my request, the America West MEC considered and debated passionately the attached resolution, and the end result is that we are actively endorsing retroactive pay (i.e. equal pay for equal work) for all pilots—East and West, provided it is achieved through the joint negotiations process. I envision a situation where we could have a completed contract in your hands for a ratification vote before the end of the year. I also expect that the average line pilot who takes a step back and looks at the whole package (neither MEC has moved off our $160+ an hour pay rates for the B737/A319/A320) will find the agreement in his or her family’s best interests. The resolution reaffirms the America West MEC’s commitment to achieving a joint contract by the end of the year that includes retroactive pay for all pilots, and bringing all pilots to parity and beyond.
An obvious question is how we are going to achieve a joint contract when the East JNC members are prohibited from participating in these negotiations. Unfortunately, I don’t have a clear answer to this question right now. However, we plan to attend next week’s session and share all information and contract sections we receive with our East MEC and JNC counterparts, while seeking additional tentative JNC dates for the remainder of the year with an emphasis on completing the CBA in by year’s end.
The bottom line is that the America West MEC is dedicated to getting this joint negotiations process in gear, and we hope that by extending an olive branch across the Mississippi River to the US Airways MEC in the form of supporting their parity concept achieved through the joint negotiations process that we can get the whole JNC team at the table. No one at ALPA or the company can force the US Airways MEC to join us at the table; we can only extend the invitation and say we are ready to join with them in good faith to achieve a contract that all pilots—East and West—can consider and vote upon before the end of the year.
We should not view the recent decisions by the ALPA Executive Council as victories, since we should not be thinking in terms of “us versus them.†I am asking all America West pilots to please continue to be professional and courteous to their union brothers and sisters on the East. Keep in mind that the merged list will now likely sit on a shelf in Doug Parker’s office instead of in Captain John Prater’s office. That list cannot be used until we have a joint contract in place that must be ratified separately by both pilot groups.
This is an opportunity to refocus on our real adversary—management. Management continues to profit at our expense and that is where all pilots should concentrate.
There is a long road ahead of us with many twists and turns, and I cannot predict with certainty where this will all end up. But I am confident that if every America West and US Airways pilot focuses on the notion of completing a joint agreement by December 31, 2007, we will have the leverage to get our respective pilot groups to a new contract that will comfortably provide for our families, and ensure job security and a better quality of life until the next challenge.
Fraternally yours,
Captain John McIlvenna
America West MEC Chairman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESOLUTION 2007-08-R1
From the
Special MEC Meeting – September 21, 2007
(2007-08)
SUBJECT: Joint Negotiation Strategy
SOURCE: AWA MEC
BACKGROUND:
The America West and US Airways pilot groups have participated in joint negotiations for a single collective bargaining agreement for just over two years. In that time, we have made good progress and are close to completing an agreement that will provide economic benefits to all pilots. Recognizing the need to complete this negotiation in a timely manner, the AWA MEC hereby commits to the following joint negotiations strategy.
RESOLUTION:
WHEREAS the pilot groups of both America West Airlines and US Airways have been negotiating a single collective bargaining agreement for over two years, and
WHEREAS many issues pertinent to the pilot groups have been addressed at the negotiating table, and
WHEREAS it appears that we are close to embarking upon the final phase of negotiations to complete this agreement by concentrating on pay rates, amount of retirement, and job security protections, and
WHEREAS the AWA MEC believes that management is interested in completing this negotiation in a timely manner, and
WHEREAS the AWA MEC believes it is in our best interests to update our strategy for achieving a single agreement along with our brothers and sisters of US Airways,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the AWA MEC hereby directs our Joint Negotiating Committee members to work with the AAA MEC’s Joint Negotiating Committee members in pursuing a course of action that will: (a) complete this negotiation by December 31, 2007 through the JNC process; (B) include substantially improved pay rates for all America West and US Airways pilots retroactive to not later than September 1, 2007; and © continue to participate with the Rice Committee in achieving a joint contract for all America West and US Airways pilots.
Moved: Captain CJ Szmal
Second: F/O Jon Garcia
Vote: Unanimous in favor
Passed this 21st day of September, 2007
Certified by:
_/s/_____________________________________
Captain Peter Blandino, MEC Secretary-Treasurer
Special MEC Chairman's Message
September 21, 2007
Fellow America West Pilots:
We are scheduled to meet with management next week to continue joint negotiations in Washington, D.C. As you are already aware, the US Airways MEC recently passed a resolution prohibiting its negotiators from participating in joint negotiations until such time as management provides the US Airways pilots with immediate pay parity with the America West pilots. At this time, we expect only management, ALPA, the America West JNC, and me to be present at this meeting. We anticipate receiving Sections 5 (Expenses), 14 (Sick), 27 (Insurance), and 28 (Retirement) from management, and possibly continue receiving management’s explanation of the Scheduling (25) and General (26) sections. I am told by our negotiators that management’s last proposal on Scheduling met many of our concerns and was clearly written in a manner that would lead to a Tentative Agreement (TA) in short order.
When one takes a step back and reviews what management presented during the last few negotiating sessions, it is clear from their signals that they want to conclude this negotiation in a timely manner. That means that now is the time to refocus our resources and energies toward completing this joint agreement. With this in mind, the America West MEC convened in an all-day session today to discuss our plans going forward. The MEC reaffirmed our belief that the only way to protect all America West and US Airways pilots from potential management whipsawing is through a joint contract.
Our MEC also unanimously affirmed the notion that for us to succeed, the contract must provide significant pay improvements for all pilots retroactive to no later than September 1, 2007, and committed to continuing Rice Committee talks, which are designed to address career progression and job security protections for all America West and US Airways pilots.
To be plain, at my request, the America West MEC considered and debated passionately the attached resolution, and the end result is that we are actively endorsing retroactive pay (i.e. equal pay for equal work) for all pilots—East and West, provided it is achieved through the joint negotiations process. I envision a situation where we could have a completed contract in your hands for a ratification vote before the end of the year. I also expect that the average line pilot who takes a step back and looks at the whole package (neither MEC has moved off our $160+ an hour pay rates for the B737/A319/A320) will find the agreement in his or her family’s best interests. The resolution reaffirms the America West MEC’s commitment to achieving a joint contract by the end of the year that includes retroactive pay for all pilots, and bringing all pilots to parity and beyond.
An obvious question is how we are going to achieve a joint contract when the East JNC members are prohibited from participating in these negotiations. Unfortunately, I don’t have a clear answer to this question right now. However, we plan to attend next week’s session and share all information and contract sections we receive with our East MEC and JNC counterparts, while seeking additional tentative JNC dates for the remainder of the year with an emphasis on completing the CBA in by year’s end.
The bottom line is that the America West MEC is dedicated to getting this joint negotiations process in gear, and we hope that by extending an olive branch across the Mississippi River to the US Airways MEC in the form of supporting their parity concept achieved through the joint negotiations process that we can get the whole JNC team at the table. No one at ALPA or the company can force the US Airways MEC to join us at the table; we can only extend the invitation and say we are ready to join with them in good faith to achieve a contract that all pilots—East and West—can consider and vote upon before the end of the year.
We should not view the recent decisions by the ALPA Executive Council as victories, since we should not be thinking in terms of “us versus them.†I am asking all America West pilots to please continue to be professional and courteous to their union brothers and sisters on the East. Keep in mind that the merged list will now likely sit on a shelf in Doug Parker’s office instead of in Captain John Prater’s office. That list cannot be used until we have a joint contract in place that must be ratified separately by both pilot groups.
This is an opportunity to refocus on our real adversary—management. Management continues to profit at our expense and that is where all pilots should concentrate.
There is a long road ahead of us with many twists and turns, and I cannot predict with certainty where this will all end up. But I am confident that if every America West and US Airways pilot focuses on the notion of completing a joint agreement by December 31, 2007, we will have the leverage to get our respective pilot groups to a new contract that will comfortably provide for our families, and ensure job security and a better quality of life until the next challenge.
Fraternally yours,
Captain John McIlvenna
America West MEC Chairman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESOLUTION 2007-08-R1
From the
Special MEC Meeting – September 21, 2007
(2007-08)
SUBJECT: Joint Negotiation Strategy
SOURCE: AWA MEC
BACKGROUND:
The America West and US Airways pilot groups have participated in joint negotiations for a single collective bargaining agreement for just over two years. In that time, we have made good progress and are close to completing an agreement that will provide economic benefits to all pilots. Recognizing the need to complete this negotiation in a timely manner, the AWA MEC hereby commits to the following joint negotiations strategy.
RESOLUTION:
WHEREAS the pilot groups of both America West Airlines and US Airways have been negotiating a single collective bargaining agreement for over two years, and
WHEREAS many issues pertinent to the pilot groups have been addressed at the negotiating table, and
WHEREAS it appears that we are close to embarking upon the final phase of negotiations to complete this agreement by concentrating on pay rates, amount of retirement, and job security protections, and
WHEREAS the AWA MEC believes that management is interested in completing this negotiation in a timely manner, and
WHEREAS the AWA MEC believes it is in our best interests to update our strategy for achieving a single agreement along with our brothers and sisters of US Airways,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the AWA MEC hereby directs our Joint Negotiating Committee members to work with the AAA MEC’s Joint Negotiating Committee members in pursuing a course of action that will: (a) complete this negotiation by December 31, 2007 through the JNC process; (B) include substantially improved pay rates for all America West and US Airways pilots retroactive to not later than September 1, 2007; and © continue to participate with the Rice Committee in achieving a joint contract for all America West and US Airways pilots.
Moved: Captain CJ Szmal
Second: F/O Jon Garcia
Vote: Unanimous in favor
Passed this 21st day of September, 2007
Certified by:
_/s/_____________________________________
Captain Peter Blandino, MEC Secretary-Treasurer
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
electricjet98
Senior
AMERICA WEST MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
TWO GATEWAY □ 432 NORTH 44TH STREET, SUITE 340 □ PHOENIX, ARIZONA 85005
602-306-1208 FAX 602-306-4119
Release #14.07
September 21, 2007
US Airways One Step Closer to Merging Operations to Benefit
Passengers, Investors and Employees
PHOENIX – The following statement is from the union leaders of the America West unit
of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l. (ALPA) following a decision of the union’s
governing body to present the pilots’ arbitrated seniority award to US Airways
management.
“Prior to the merger of America West and US Airways, our two pilot groups
negotiated a Transition Agreement with management requiring three components
before the operations could be merged—a single FAA operating certificate, a joint
collective bargaining agreement, and an integrated seniority list. With management
moving forward to obtain the single operating certificate next week and the seniority
list complete, a single pilot contract will allow US Airways to complete the merger.
“We have spent nearly two years negotiating for a fair, single contract. During
this time, the America West and US Airways pilots have been working for bottom-ofbarrel
wages and benefits while senior management has literally cashed in millions of
dollars available only due to the efforts of labor to position our company for success. We
remain focused and committed to achieving a joint contract that benefits our airline
and our pilots. Additionally, the America West pilots support US Airways pilots’ quest
for parity; however, we believe that all US Airways pilots deserve significant gains that
far exceed parity and will continue to work for such within the joint negotiations
process.
“As we head back to the bargaining table next week with management, the
message is clear: it’s time to put our operations together and obtain the full financial
and operational synergies promised to the investors, passengers and employees of US
Airways.â€
The Air Line Pilots Association is the bargaining agent for the nearly 1,900
pilots at America West Airlines. Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilot
union, representing more than 60,000 pilots at 41 airlines in the United States and
Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.
# # #
ALPA Contact: Captain Tania Bziukiewicz, (602) 214-3490; (602) 306-1208
Lydia Jakub, (602) 794-2882; (480) 586-5873
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
TWO GATEWAY □ 432 NORTH 44TH STREET, SUITE 340 □ PHOENIX, ARIZONA 85005
602-306-1208 FAX 602-306-4119
Release #14.07
September 21, 2007
US Airways One Step Closer to Merging Operations to Benefit
Passengers, Investors and Employees
PHOENIX – The following statement is from the union leaders of the America West unit
of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l. (ALPA) following a decision of the union’s
governing body to present the pilots’ arbitrated seniority award to US Airways
management.
“Prior to the merger of America West and US Airways, our two pilot groups
negotiated a Transition Agreement with management requiring three components
before the operations could be merged—a single FAA operating certificate, a joint
collective bargaining agreement, and an integrated seniority list. With management
moving forward to obtain the single operating certificate next week and the seniority
list complete, a single pilot contract will allow US Airways to complete the merger.
“We have spent nearly two years negotiating for a fair, single contract. During
this time, the America West and US Airways pilots have been working for bottom-ofbarrel
wages and benefits while senior management has literally cashed in millions of
dollars available only due to the efforts of labor to position our company for success. We
remain focused and committed to achieving a joint contract that benefits our airline
and our pilots. Additionally, the America West pilots support US Airways pilots’ quest
for parity; however, we believe that all US Airways pilots deserve significant gains that
far exceed parity and will continue to work for such within the joint negotiations
process.
“As we head back to the bargaining table next week with management, the
message is clear: it’s time to put our operations together and obtain the full financial
and operational synergies promised to the investors, passengers and employees of US
Airways.â€
The Air Line Pilots Association is the bargaining agent for the nearly 1,900
pilots at America West Airlines. Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilot
union, representing more than 60,000 pilots at 41 airlines in the United States and
Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.
# # #
ALPA Contact: Captain Tania Bziukiewicz, (602) 214-3490; (602) 306-1208
Lydia Jakub, (602) 794-2882; (480) 586-5873
cactusmike
Newbie
- Sep 13, 2007
- 5
- 0
Well, you folks back East seem to feel that USAPA is a done deal. We may find out soon but so what! Do you really think that the vast majority of AAA pilots will vote down a TA that gives them improved pay AND work rules? When not one pilot has lost any seniority or has been bumped out of position since the merger was completed?
Parker got the cuts done a year ago. There are more jets on the property now than a year ago. There are real jets coming with delivery dates. Once the "selling" begins, which I will admit will happen (it happens every contract out here) I believe that the vast majority of East pilots will see that there is no bogey man and that the list hasn't hurt them and that they can make real gains from a joint contract.
For USAPA to have a snowball's chance in PHX in July, they would have to appeal to the West pilots. That hasn't happened and never will. The few anti ALPA malcontents are just that, few, and there will never be the numbers USAPA needs to oust ALPA. ALPA will come in with all guns blazing and USAPA does not have the support or money to compete with a full court ALPA press.
Parker got the cuts done a year ago. There are more jets on the property now than a year ago. There are real jets coming with delivery dates. Once the "selling" begins, which I will admit will happen (it happens every contract out here) I believe that the vast majority of East pilots will see that there is no bogey man and that the list hasn't hurt them and that they can make real gains from a joint contract.
For USAPA to have a snowball's chance in PHX in July, they would have to appeal to the West pilots. That hasn't happened and never will. The few anti ALPA malcontents are just that, few, and there will never be the numbers USAPA needs to oust ALPA. ALPA will come in with all guns blazing and USAPA does not have the support or money to compete with a full court ALPA press.
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
Ok. We'll mark you down as an unbeliever, for now.
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
I don't think you will get a TA to start with because it is of no advantage to management. They have cheap pilot labor on the East and I believe they like it that way. And YES, I believe the East would vote down any TA that has the hook in it (NIC).
We are losing jets. There is nothing on order at this time that is a growth aircraft. All are replacements for aircraft being returned to the leasors. We will lose more 757s and 737s next year and the 190s are becoming replacement aircraft, further reducing pilot costs. There are not enough aircraft on order to replace what they are parking.
Management has got to love this. This talk about them wanting a single contract is nothing but lip service.
A320 Driver B)
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