US Airways ALPA Merger Committee Presentation

[Tiger 1050]

Your post accurately reflects your, and apparently the wests total ignorance about the feeling and resolve from the east pilots. I am around number 50 on BOTH lists and would never vote yes on a contract that included the nic list. REGARDLESS of the hourly rate. That doesn't make one an idiot. It makes one principled for standing up for the profession and the seniority that each and every pilot, ON BOTH SIDES, has earned and has a right to. Like when you bid your blocks, vacation, vacancies etc.... You know, seniority. The thing that our entire careers are based on.

Maybe you do have resolve. Albeit misplaced but nonetheless resolve...

The principle you speak of...? Is this the same principle the east was using in trying to staple the AWA pilots? You guys need to understand that seniority is what you bring with you to the merger. Whatever #50 could hold on May 18th 2005 is what #50 should hold today. Length of service has nothing to do with our situation (this is a new company). You guys seem to be using seniority and length of service as one in the same. They are not the same! This is why you cannot understand how Nicolau's award fair.

To pass up a decent close to your career regarding pay and benefits because of you weak "principle" is a rather obtuse position...

Good day little children

 

[pilot]

No one tried to staple anyone Sparky. Except the Piedmont guys with the Empire merger. And that, to this very day, is a disgrace. DOH is not a staple job and you know it. And LOS has to do with each and every merger from now until the cows come home. If it doesn't then ALPA would have passed the list to the company the day after it came out. Everyone in this industry knows the travesty of the nic award including the EC. But they haven't the balls to pass the list. Why?

And just so everyone understands something else. Had the infamous 320 and his GAG been in the top 500 he'd be singing a very different tune. Because he's just like you west guys. Only out for himself. Not the profession. I don't want him anywhere near my foxhole. Nor do the majority of pilots on the east property.

Weak principle? Your last sentence sums it up pretty well. I should give in so I can enjoy a decent close to my career? I would expect to hear that from a pilot group who just won a lottery. Because principle is a word you folks don't have in your vocabulary.

pilot

 

[ableoneable]

No one tried to staple anyone Sparky. Except the Piedmont guys with the Empire merger. And that, to this very day, is a disgrace. DOH is not a staple job and you know it. And LOS has to do with each and every merger from now until the cows come home. If it doesn't then ALPA would have passed the list to the company the day after it came out. Everyone in this industry knows the travesty of the nic award including the EC. But they haven't the balls to pass the list. Why?

And just so everyone understands something else. Had the infamous 320 and his GAG been in the top 500 he'd be singing a very different tune. Because he's just like you west guys. Only out for himself. Not the profession. I don't want him anywhere near my foxhole. Nor do the majority of pilots on the east property.

Weak principle? Your last sentence sums it up pretty well. I should give in so I can enjoy a decent close to my career? I would expect to hear that from a pilot group who just won a lottery. Because principle is a word you folks don't have in your vocabulary.

pilot

I think the east is looking at the upside differences and the west at the downside. All I hear from the likes of you is that the Nic list is a windfall and that the west is "stealing seniority, upgrades etc etc."

The west is pretty focused on the downside. Should another downcycle occur and furloughs happen the net result will be a replacement of previously employed west pilots by previosuly unemployed east pilots.

In my case the east DOH/LOS proposal would have placed a significant number of furloughed pilots senior to my position. Were a furlough to occur, proportional to the number of pilots employed at the time of the merger, I would first be downgraded and then me furloughed. Meanwhile someone who had been on the street when I was in the left seat would still be employed. If and when the ecenomic cycle reversed this I would be yanking gear for someone who was on the street when the merger occured.

You claim that this is not a staple job. I have yet to fathom how you do not consider this a windfall of one group at the expense of another? This to you is completly fair. Very few on the outside agree with your perspective.

 

[Tiger 1050]

No one tried to staple anyone Sparky. Except the Piedmont guys with the Empire merger. And that, to this very day, is a disgrace. DOH is not a staple job and you know it. And LOS has to do with each and every merger from now until the cows come home. If it doesn't then ALPA would have passed the list to the company the day after it came out. Everyone in this industry knows the travesty of the nic award including the EC. But they haven't the balls to pass the list. Why?


Weak principle? Your last sentence sums it up pretty well. I should give in so I can enjoy a decent close to my career? I would expect to hear that from a pilot group who just won a lottery. Because principle is a word you folks don't have in your vocabulary.

pilot

Yes you did try a staple under the guise of DOH. That is effectively what you would have done to the majority of AWA pilots.

Oh dear friend let me help you understand ALPA's real motivation. It is dollars! Yes! Can you see it now? Your unavailing attempt at a decert drive scares ALPA enough to sit on this award. It has nothing to do with your DOH/LOS arguement.

Everyone knows the travesy? Is this why I always hear about the arrogance of the east? Did you read the NWA MEC hotline put out shortly after the award came out? It effectively said that they thought the award was reasonable. The east is the only one not getting the point my little antagonist.

Lottery? How do I cash that in?

Good day little children

 

[Piedmont1984]

Finally, the pilots who are leading the effort to decertify ALPA are close to getting enough cards to petition the NMB for a representational election. I believe there are hundreds of pilots holding onto their cards watching the process and the Rice Committee. If the Rice Committee cannot provide a solution than I believe ALPA will be voted off of the property and then there will be two different pilot unions at US Airways, who would not be permitted to negotiate a joint contract.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
[/quote]

USA320Pilot

Regardless of where you stand on the decertification effort, we need to stop refering to them as decertification cards. In reality, they are cards meant to trigger a representational election. They do not make ALPA go away. However, they will make ALPA state their case as a bargaining agent for this pilot group.

I encourage those who are waiting on the Rice Committee to send in their cards anyway. Doing so may even help the Rice Committee along in making a decision.

BTW, without being specific, I have heard some very encouraging numbers regarding how many cards have already been submitted.

piedmont1984

 

[pilot]

As I mentioned, it won't be solved on this board. Opinions are like eyeballs. Everyone has one or two.

It will be resolved however.

One way or another. Speculate all you want. And call me all the names you like. I'm sure it makes you feel superior.

pilot

 

[A320 Driver]

I will concede that to you; probably by more than 60%. However, do you really think you will ever see an offer anything near industry leading from this management? They will probably say 122 million is all we can budget. That unfortunately for "all of US" will not cut it.

I think the chances of getting an industry leading contract out of Tempe is somewhere between nil and zip. If we did, I don't agree that it would pass a vote on the East. So, lets say, for the sake of argument, the best we could muster is a middle of the road contract. That certainly would be DOA with the East so, what is the point?

I think JNC negotiations are a waste of time and money.

A320 Driver B)

 

[BottomFeeder]

Your post accurately reflects your, and apparently the wests total ignorance about the feeling and resolve from the east pilots. I am around number 50 on BOTH lists and would never vote yes on a contract that included the nic list. REGARDLESS of the hourly rate. That doesn't make one an idiot. It makes one principled for standing up for the profession and the seniority that each and every pilot, ON BOTH SIDES, has earned and has a right to. Like when you bid your blocks, vacation, vacancies etc.... You know, seniority. The thing that our entire careers are based on.

This stopped being about money long ago for the east pilots. If you west folks can't figure out anything else try to understand this:

The east gave up billions in pay and pension to keep an airline alive. We incorrectly assumed an arbitrator would follow ALL of the merger policy. When he didn't (you can argue forever about that) the straw broke the camels back. If you think the east does not have the resolve to do everything possible to save our seniority you are way off base. When I say everything possible I truly mean it. Whatever it takes.

I don't expect most of you west folks to get it. You can't seem to comprehend the sheer lunacy of a 4 year guy being senior to a 20 year guy who has never been furloughed. So be it. And as for our hard line on DOH during negotiations, you don't seem to understand negotiations either. Not one pilot on the east list fully expected a DOH list without conditions and restrictions. You say there is nothing in the merger policy about date of hire. You are correct. There is also nothing in that policy about slotting or ratios. Oh, by the way, the first 500 folks went date of hire and the rest were slotted. Guess old nic read something into the policy that wasn't there.

Nothing is going to be solved on these boards. But the west needs to comprehend the total and complete mindset of the east. We gave up billions through 2 Chapter 11's. We stared down liquidation and Lakefield would have merged us with someone else if not AWA. There was not going to be a liquidation or it would have happened long before AWA became involved. We draw the line at seniority.

And if you guys can't figure out the importance of seniority and what it means to the east, and to all airline pilots, then you haven't got a clue. But, since you want the nic list implemented so badly, I guess you must know what seniority is. You just don't think the east should have it.

pilot

pilot

Thank you for your show of support and unity. We saw many Captains and senior ones at that at the Herdon meeting. These Westie guys and gals think this is a small group of upset members but it is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[electricjet98]

I encourage those who are waiting on the Rice Committee to send in their cards anyway. Doing so may even help the Rice Committee along in making a decision.

Put up or shut up!

 

[Tiger 1050]

Finally, the pilots who are leading the effort to decertify ALPA are close to getting enough cards to petition the NMB for a representational election. I believe there are hundreds of pilots holding onto their cards watching the process and the Rice Committee. If the Rice Committee cannot provide a solution than I believe ALPA will be voted off of the property and then there will be two different pilot unions at US Airways, who would not be permitted to negotiate a joint contract.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
USA320Pilot

Regardless of where you stand on the decertification effort, we need to stop refering to them as decertification cards. In reality, they are cards meant to trigger a representational election. They do not make ALPA go away. However, they will make ALPA state their case as a bargaining agent for this pilot group.

I encourage those who are waiting on the Rice Committee to send in their cards anyway. Doing so may even help the Rice Committee along in making a decision.

BTW, without being specific, I have heard some very encouraging numbers regarding how many cards have already been submitted.

piedmont1984

I wholeheartedly encourage you to send them in! Let's get on with it already! I really want to see if you truely have the numbers...

Oh! And just so you know, Rice and his little committee have no power to make any kind of decision regarding the Nic award. Also just heard today that company believes that your vain attempt at keeping us seperate (see resolution) for all eternity is in violation of the TA you boys signed...


Good day little children...

 

[luvn737s]

TraderJake is in the minority of US Airways pilots and I doubt he has the courage to identify him self and make his opinions known to the public. He would be chastized if he did, which is why he will not go public.

The vast majority of the US Airways pilots will do anything to prevent the Nicolau Award from proceeding. For example, today I spoke with a Captain who is about 800 on the Nicolau list and he told me he “did not care if the company offered a pay rate of $300 per hour he would vote ‘no’ on a joint contract if that was necessary to stop the Nicolau Award from proceeding."

The first contract will be voted down. When the guys who could have had a substantial pay increase see how slim the margin was, and after mgt sweetens the pot about 10% more, they will jump ship and vote YES.

Don't bet on people giving up money out of misguided "principal". They never have and they never will. The senior US guys are no different.

 

[Junebug172]

Finally, the pilots who are leading the effort to decertify ALPA are close to getting enough cards to petition the NMB for a representational election. I believe there are hundreds of pilots holding onto their cards watching the process and the Rice Committee. If the Rice Committee cannot provide a solution than I believe ALPA will be voted off of the property and then there will be two different pilot unions at US Airways, who would not be permitted to negotiate a joint contract.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
USA320Pilot

Regardless of where you stand on the decertification effort, we need to stop refering to them as decertification cards. In reality, they are cards meant to trigger a representational election. They do not make ALPA go away. However, they will make ALPA state their case as a bargaining agent for this pilot group.

I encourage those who are waiting on the Rice Committee to send in their cards anyway. Doing so may even help the Rice Committee along in making a decision.

BTW, without being specific, I have heard some very encouraging numbers regarding how many cards have already been submitted.

piedmont1984

Funny thing. I just got off the phone with an east guy. He says that many of the pilots that turned in their cards are having seconds thoughts about doing so.

I wouldn't be holding your collective breaths for this card collection to succeed.

 

[Ardenian]

TraderJake is in the minority of US Airways pilots and I doubt he has the courage to identify him self and make his opinions known to the public.

Yet USA320Armegeddon runs and hides when someone with "differing views" approaches in person. Like a scared, small child.

TraderJake, will you please help us to send USA320Armegeddon out to PHX? If we sign on to the Nic award, it might be worth it to "spread the joy" and have him move out west. You Westies will like him, really, you will.

Okay, I am patiently awaiting my "quote-laced" PM. Make it good this time...