AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27

[prechilill]

EastUS said: cluck cluck, Hmmm...haven't you been amongst the more vocal advocates of the precious "rule of law" ? Amazing to think that gross injustices are indeed very possible, even within 'the law" cluck cluck

You seem to like "bucking the system" regardless of ideology or logic. So when are you and the other minority roosters out east going to quit scampering around directionless like a headless chicken and get past Farmer Nicolau's "grave injustice" to you all?

 

[EastUS]

You seem to like "bucking the system" regardless of ideology or logic. So when are you and the other minority roosters out east going to quit scampering around directionless like a headless chicken and get past Farmer Nicolau's "grave injustice" to you all?

As per bucking the system regardless of ideology or logic?...No idea what hat you might pull that BS from, but 'twas doubtless purchased in a cheap magic shop. I'm hardly one to dismiss "ideology or logic"...and we simply come about our viewpoints from clearly conflicting notions as to what properly constitutes either of those.

As for "So when are you and the other minority roosters "/etc? Hmm...first response = the moment Hell opens it's second season of snow skiing...other than that? : Can't say...but I'm not interested in any/all of the chicken feed AWA "solutions" via mythical JNC fantasies. See listings under "ideology"...what's WRONG doesn't stop being wrong with time's passage, nor a few bucks this way or that.

"and get past Farmer Nicolau's "grave injustice" to you all?" Can't answer that one for you any better. What's you're personal time table for surrendering your core beliefs and values should they ever become "inconvenient"?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

What's you're personal time table for surrendering your core beliefs and values should they ever become "inconvenient"?

Well said!!

Rationalization is a very dangerous thing. Look what its got us so far.

 

[ClueByFour]

True the CBA and Transition Agreement are inherited. The key to the lock is in section 6.

Section 6 is meaningless unless the motions have been met for a joint contract. You don't really think that the HP folks are going to cut their own throats, do you?

Ergo sum, you end up with USAPA, and East gets a raise when it's CBA is amendable. If the company goes for it, which they won't.

The key to all of it is reasonable negotiation. The West guys (quite reasonably) point out that East had that chance prior to Nicolau and refused it.

 

[ClueByFour]

Nice try there but when USAPA wins they take over the show since they inherit the CBA and Transition Agreement. Now lets say the negotiations progress as your Communications Gal says that all prior work is gone. They will most likely go back to the begining again. Two years has lasped since our start so fair to say it takes another two plus years. AAA's LOA93 is set to expire when? That's right, in two years. Now we have both AWA and AAA contract open for section 6. Figure the rest out......

Curious: how does Section 6, even for both sides, somehow make the transition agreement go away?

I'm assuming the company won't play along, of course. Or, better yet--do you really thing the old greedy bastard bloc in the East will still have a majority in 2011?

You guys really need to get better tacticians in on this before someone loses the other foot from the shotgun blast.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Section 6 is meaningless unless the motions have been met for a joint contract. You don't really think that the HP folks are going to cut their own throats, do you?

Yes I do. Their greed is so high that if the pot is sweet enough they will jump.

Ergo sum, you end up with USAPA, and East gets a raise when it's CBA is amendable. If the company goes for it, which they won't.

The key to all of it is reasonable negotiation. The West guys (quite reasonably) point out that East had that chance prior to Nicolau and refused it.

Clue,

Would you confirm for us if USAPA did start the filing process?

If so, do you have any idea of the time frame till the election vote?

Thanks

 

[Bear96]

Would you confirm for us if USAPA did start the filing process?

I'm not Clue, but I know of one way to confirm such activity.

Keep an eye on the Representation section of this link next week:

NMB Weekly Activity Report

Other than that, before next week's report comes out, maybe you can give the NMB a call to verify.

 

[BottomFeeder]

I'm not Clue, but I know of one way to confirm such activity.

Keep an eye on the Representation section of this link next week:

NMB Weekly Activity Report

Other than that, before next week's report comes out, maybe you can give the NMB a call to verify.

Bear96,

Thanks for the link.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

NMB Weekly Activity Report

Thanks for the link.

 

[Phoenix]

Prater sides with the company

"Late this afternoon, (yesterday) ALPA President John Prater notified Captain Michael Cleary, Chairman US Airways Pilots System Board of Adjustments, and informed him that MEC Grievance (filed against the company) 07-09-03, Scope Violation/Single Operating Certificate, has not been authorized by the President’s Office(ALPO) and accordingly, the grievance should not be processed further nor should an arbitrator be selected at this time.

For as long as our leadership can remember, an ALPA President has never withheld support of an MEC grievance. This notification was also sent to the America West MEC Chairman and US Airway’s senior management."

 

[Phoenix]

What Think Ye?

The AAA MEC is in full compliance with the transition agreement. The TA specifies when negotiations must begin but not when or if an agreement must ever be reached. It could take 30 days or 30 years to negotiate an agreement (or never). The TA is separate from the CBA and is not covered by the Railway Labor Act. There is no requirement for the NMB to declare an impasse, no 30 day clock, and no self help since the TA is a private contract between ALPA and the company. If ALPA is no longer the representative then what happens to the TA as one party to the contract would no longer exist to fulfill their TA obligations?

Should the East MEC ever be found in breech of the TA contract by a court the only remedy would be monetary damages. A court can not order a party to reach an agreement. The company has stated in SEC documents that they would have negligible damages. The other party is the AWA pilots. The AWA pilots could sue for the damages of the Nicolau award not being implemented. The AWA pilots would then have to prove in court that the Nicolau list is not fair and equitable because logically if it was equitable there would be no damages. The AWA pilots would be trying to prove the award was not fair and equitable and calculate the value of damages which would be....."the windfall"....that AWA pilots claim does not exist.

By the way Prater has said ALPA national does not have the authority to negotiate a contract for the East MEC. They can only assist and advise the JNC. Any agreement must reached by the JNC and must be approved by both the AAA and AWA pilots via a separate vote to be ratified. AAA pilots specifically retain all rights to negotiate a separate CBA contract as protected by the Railway Labor Act. Operations will remain separate until the AAA pilots decide when and if a fair and equitable pilot integration can take place.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What Think Ye?

I think USA320Pilot is spreading fertilizer again.......

Jim

 

[700UW]

The TA is a LOA which is part of your CBA now, as is LOA 93 ETC.

 

[Phoenix]

I think USA320Pilot is spreading fertilizer again.......

Jim

Oh I would never post anything that 320 posted.

Except maybe a "sympathy pic."

"I feel your pain. I really do!"

 

[CactusFlyr]

I want some of whatever he is smoking.