US Pilots Labor Thread 8/20-8/27- NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Phoenix]

Ya'll are never going to come to any kind of common ground so why don't you just stop fussing at each other.?

You don't like this...they don't like that....

So how are the Joint Negotiations going? What does the company have on the table?

I just heard the FAA is finally getting off their ass and is going to change flight duty limits to 12 hrs for domestic. I also heard this might happen within the next 6 months..

Comments??

Good for ALPA supporting the 12 hour duty period and a 10 hour minimum rest period. If they can get me a back pay compensation for all those 8 hour rest periods and 14 hour days then they can have a 2% cut... And they can rest assured, it won't in anyway affect my vote in any future representational elections... but they can always dream.

 

[jetjok1]

The FAA rest requirements and duty limits are long due for a change to keep up with the science. The Colgan crash at BUF added some Congressional pressure on the FAA, although one of the effects may be limits on commuting prior to reporting for duty (good or bad depending on one's point of view I guess).

Jim

Well, good luck with that one. They only pay me for the time the aircraft is under movement. I give them a bunch of free time in preparation for the flight and a little afterwards. I'll be damn if they will have a say on what I do on my time and my time is any time prior to checkin.

 

[nic4us]

Well, good luck with that one. They only pay me for the time the aircraft is under movement..............................................................
................................................................ I'll be damn if they will have a say on what I do on my time and my time is any time prior to checkin.

So can you drink beer on your time? any time prior to check in.

Can you scuba dive on your time? give blood?

If the fllight time duty limits change, and they change for the better, it will come at some cost to what we can do on our time and/or we will end up with less of our time.

 

[Phoenix]

So can you drink beer on your time? any time prior to check in.

Can you scuba dive on your time? give blood?

If the fllight time duty limits change, and they change for the better, it will come at some cost to what we can do on our time and/or we will end up with less of our time.

..at some cost..

How many d@#$! years has ALPA been preaching that everything comes at a cost... and where has that gotten us?

 

[BoeingBoy]

In discussions of the fatigue issue, there has been a growing and somewhat discouraging focus on the practice of "commuting" -- whereby a crew member lives in one city but is based in another.

Article

The Air Transport Assn., which represents major US carriers, has indicated that it wants commuting to be considered as part of the overall discussion on new rules. "We recommended to Congress that there should be an examination of flight crew preparedness when pilots report to work," ATA said in a written statement to this magazine. "This means looking at crew commuting as well." If this means examining flight/duty time issues, that examination "must be based on science and not polemics."

Article

Jim

 

[Bear96]

Well, good luck with that one. They only pay me for the time the aircraft is under movement. I give them a bunch of free time in preparation for the flight and a little afterwards. I'll be damn if they will have a say on what I do on my time and my time is any time prior to checkin.

How dare you bring up a timely, relevant and interesting issue on the USAirways Pilots Labor thread that doesn't have to do with the Nic award and East v. West!

 

[Poug Darker]

Be careful what you wish for...yeah, minimum overnights are inadequate at best but if they go to 12 hour rest (which would be adequate IMO), the scheduling boys will probably have you working more days for the same $$$. Although, talk to any LUV crew and they'll tell you that 12 hour O/N's work great. They either have early shift (start at 6am, finish around 2 pm) or late shift (start at 2 pm, finish at 10 pm). They key is that they don't vary their start time for the duration of the trip (unlike some places do...), and it just works (like so many things southwest does...).
As for commuting rules, just look to established precident over in the arab airlines. A jumpseater from Saudia told me that you can't live out of base (say, live in Italy and commute into Dubai or Jedda for your trip) because they have a 24 hour rule. They have to be 'in base' for crew rest prior to the start of the trip for 24 hours. If caught commuting in, its grounds for termination.
Bottom line though, whatever is done should be done in the name of safety. The fact is that on a minimum overnight, if you are lucky, you'll get 6 hours of sleep. A 15 hour duty day with ++TSRA on the last leg at destination after a short night like that.... well, I'm sure you get the picture.
Cheers and Stay Safe.

 

[Phoenix]

Be careful what you wish for.....

No doubt ALPA's opening negotiating strategy would effectively be to give back $2 for every $1 they hope to get. Its been the MO for years, why change now.

Min overnights have been stupid for decades. There is no need to "give" anything in order to fix stupid.

 

[cleardirect]

I would think that all of the east guys would be demanding that no commuter rule.

After all that would certainly fix your fear of us west guys come flooding into the east. Just like yourselves, we are not going to uproot our families and move all the way across the country. The federal government could put up a fence that usapa or Seham are unable to get.

But be careful what you wish for. That would mean that all those that live in PIT would have to move. But then no one would ever have to complain about being denied the jumpseat ever again.

 

[LSS]

I would think that all of the east guys would be demanding that no commuter rule.

After all that would certainly fix your fear of us west guys come flooding into the east. Just like yourselves, we are not going to uproot our families and move all the way across the country. The federal government could put up a fence that usapa or Seham are unable to get.

But be careful what you wish for. That would mean that all those that live in PIT would have to move. But then no one would ever have to complain about being denied the jumpseat ever again.

Sorry, but I'm not moving and uprooting my family again to be in base (have already been there done that at least 4 or 5 times with this company).

You can't regulate stupidity, and all pilots should be using good judgement when living out of base to make certain they can arrive there, rested and prepared to fly. In other words, I don't think it is using good judgement pulling a red-eye to commute to base when you almost immediately have to fly a trip after you arrive. I can see it coming that everyone who commutes will pay a price because some choose to do dumb things.

 

[Hawkhunter]

From 8 hours to 12?

Huh?

 

[hp_fa]

But be careful what you wish for. That would mean that all those that live in PIT would have to move. But then no one would ever have to complain about being denied the jumpseat ever again.

PIT is probably easy compared to the prior PSA folks commute if they still live out west.

I can see it coming that everyone who commutes will pay a price because some choose to do dumb things.

Isn't that the truth. In fact you can swap the word "commutes" for just about any activity and find that the dumb or greedy people all cause us to be regulated because some folks will always push limits and do dumb things.

 

[cleardirect]

Speaking of commuting. Since no one would answer my last question how about address the other east fear.

How many west pilots do you all think will be willing to commute or move to an east domicile?

How many east pilots do you all think will be willing to commute or move to a west base?


This seems to be a huge point of fear. That somehow the west will go rushing out east for whatever reason. Give me some numbers.

 

[hp_fa]

Well we know that some of the ex-PSA folks would likely bid PHX. A few have posted as such and Sully said so in testimony. My guess would be up to 20% of the East folks would bid PHX for either commuting or bid position reasons. Since we have also seen a few West posters say they would go East, say under 5% going that way.

Those are pure guesstimates.

 

[Barrister]

Speaking of commuting. Since no one would answer my last question how about address the other east fear.

How many west pilots do you all think will be willing to commute or move to an east domicile?

How many east pilots do you all think will be willing to commute or move to a west base?


This seems to be a huge point of fear. That somehow the west will go rushing out east for whatever reason. Give me some numbers.

That is a good question, however, the most important question is how many of you will commute when LAS and PHX close......answer? all of you!!