US Pilots Labor Discussion-Aug 5 to 12-KEEP ON TOPIC

[hp_fa]

Out of curiosity, What does the East actually "win" if the stars and planets actually align and the appeal to the 9th goes their way? DOH? Nic. gone forever? What?

A new trial with with some instructions from the Ninth on how to cure whatever infirmities they determine existed in the previous trial.

However, any new trial would include an appearance by Stephan Bradford.

 

[Metroyet]

A new trial with with some instructions from the Ninth on how to cure whatever infirmities they determine existed in the previous trial.

However, any new trial would include an appearance by Stephan Bradford.

Okay. We all know that this whole debacle is about the Nicalau Award...not crummy old ALPA or whatever. USAPA is about the Nic. award. Period. Being that the Nicalau Award was CLEARLY not on trial here...as in it's fairness or it's validity, wouldn't it be a true statment to say that USAPA has zero chance of evading the Nic even IF they WON the appeal?

Judge Wake was crystal clear that this trial was not about the nic award...as much as the defendants tried to MAKE it about their perceived fairness about the award. So in the end, what's the point of the appeal? Delay tactics served them in the past but their support is draining fast which is why they've done all they can to actually expedite this time around.

If Nic wasn't on trial to begin with, how in the world is the appeals process going to grant them, (yet again) an attempted "do over"?

 

[Pilot692]

Prechillill,

During the Representation campaign USAPA said US Airways pilots would be the lowest dues paying pilots in the industry and that USAPA officials would use crew hotels, hotel transportation, conduct meetings in the airport, and be paid crew per diem.

Now US Airways' pilots pay the highest amount of dues/assessments in the industry, union meetings have been held in places like the Hyatt Place, USAPA has authorized OCONUS/GSA per diem, and the BPR bought them self automobiles for personal using union dues to do so.

What happened to the campaign promises? Why have these (among others) been broken?

Regards.

USA320Pilot

sigh.......one more time...........Hyatt Place is a training overflow hotel....The BPR usually stays at the Sterling but the meeting room is simply too small. They've had to rent vans to transport from the Sterling to the Hyatt to utilize their meeting room. Per diem is the same as crews on trips. The OCONUS crap is for DCA only, for obvious reasons. The union purchased 2 cars for staff use thereby saving the union $44,000 over 5 years.
Any other crap you'd like to toss at the wall, chippy? So far, nothings sticking.....................

 

[hp_fa]

Metro, I forgot to add that the injunction could, of course, be overturned or modified by the Ninth Circuit. I just don't think it will happen but I also will not rule out the possibility of a surprise.

 

[A320 Driver]

Okay. We all know that this whole debacle is about the Nicalau Award...not crummy old ALPA or whatever. USAPA is about the Nic. award. Period. Being that the Nicalau Award was CLEARLY not on trial here...as in it's fairness or it's validity, wouldn't it be a true statment to say that USAPA has zero chance of evading the Nic even IF they WON the appeal?

Judge Wake was crystal clear that this trial was not about the nic award...as much as the defendants tried to MAKE it about their perceived fairness about the award. So in the end, what's the point of the appeal? Delay tactics served them in the past but their support is draining fast which is why they've done all they can to actually expedite this time around.

If Nic wasn't on trial to begin with, how in the world is the appeals process going to grant them, (yet again) an attempted "do over"?

If the trial and ruling wasn't about the Nic award, then why is it mentioned over and over in Judge Wakes ruling???????

His "crystal clear" is about as clear as MUD!


Driver B)

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Metro, I forgot to add that the injunction could, of course, be overturned or modified by the Ninth Circuit. I just don't think it will happen but I also will not rule out the possibility of a surprise.

Good that you mentioned that possibility. May I remind you that you didn't think the 9th would hear USAPA's appeal in less than 14months or 2 years. You had to admit you were wrong on that score and some other issues as well. My humble suggestion to you would be not to engage in prognostications. B)

 

[luvn737s]

Also whether anyone likes it or not a united front from the US East pilots have the votes to shut US Airways no matter what a court rules. People need to keep that in mind.

With the passion of deposing ALPA replaced with the lousy after taste of failure that USAPA has left in their mouths, the east is likely less united than ever. The east, for all their chest-thumping, knows where their meal ticket resides and a bunch of 55-62 year olds are not about to tear that ticket up.

The only threat their vote poses is a threat to their own pocketbooks by voting "No" on any future T/A out of spite for the west.

 

[Nor-CalSurfer]

Because seham keeps bring it up.

 

[hp_fa]

Good that you mentioned that possibility. May I remind you that you didn't think the 9th would hear USAPA's appeal in less than 14months or 2 years. You had to admit you were wrong on that score and some other issues as well. My humble suggestion to you would be not to engage in prognostications. B)

I'm not sure how to answer that. You and I had a pleasent exchange a week or two ago and I freely admitted my grave error concerning the issue of the expedited appeal. I also explained why my original thinking was wrong. Yet in the past few days both Mega and now you are re-raising the issue I had already admitted and explained.

So let me ask you a question. Who on this board has an overall better percentage of being accurate? Also, are you contending that along with me that anyone with a lesser percentage of accurateness should now simply stop giving opinions?

 

[Nor-CalSurfer]

You could be right in your assessment. "IF" and I agree it's a giant "IF" the Folks on the East do stand together then I'm right in that they have the votes to essentially shut the entire airline down.

You point is well taken, the variable is IMO just how pizzed off the East pilots really are. I'm pretty certain that a majority of them have reached their limit and wouldn't think twice about sending US into liquidation. The open question is would it be the majority of the entire pilot group and that as you pointed out is at least in question right now.

Should they prevail upon appeal or if they get hammered with a huge damage award then we shall see what transpires next. sadly I don't see a win-win to be created through negotiations at this point. The courts will decide and in the end no one will be happy, PLUS you'll all be several thousands of dollar poorer for your efforts and Doug will be laughing his assets off as he bought top quality pilots for Wal-Mart Prices.

Ain't life grand.

How would the east pilots vote to shut down the airline. They can't vote for a strike without a release to self help by the gov. The can't just vote to shut down the airline, they are not running it.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

I'm not sure how to answer that. You and I had a pleasent exchange a week or two ago and I freely admitted my grave error concerning the issue of the expedited appeal. I also explained why my original thinking was wrong. Yet in the past few days both Mega and now you are re-raising the issue I had already admitted and explained.

So let me ask you a question. Who on this board has an overall better percentage of being accurate? Also, are you contending that along with me that anyone with a lesser percentage of accurateness should now simply stop giving opinions?

I'm sorry if you had already mentioned the possibility of the injunction going the other way. If you did, then I apologize to you now for bringing it up again.

As for your question On % of accuracy, I don't keep score on that account so I cannot contend one way or the other on that one.

I thank you again for your very reasonable response to me a week or two ago. It was duly appreciated.

 

[Nor-CalSurfer]

Remember UA's "Summer of He!!"?

Suppose they lose every aspect of the court case(s) pending and future? Then what? They continually vote no on subsequent offers until the above mentioned release comes and they have the votes for a strike and BINGO bye bye US.

With the current cash position of US Airways I'm betting a UA style job action would sink US.

In the current economic situation the gov. would never release a union hell bent on self destruction lose to destroy an airline and all the money invested in said airline. No they would just let them labor on under a substandard contract until they either gained wisdom or retired.

 

[oscarjazz]

Metro, I forgot to add that the injunction could, of course, be overturned or modified by the Ninth Circuit. I just don't think it will happen but I also will not rule out the possibility of a surprise.

I think the only chance of getting overturned would be the ripeness issue. That would still leave USAPA in a sticky situation, where they know that if they could possibly negotiate a DOH list, they would lose their DFR all over again. What a mess.

 

[oscarjazz]

Remember UA's "Summer of He!!"?

Suppose they lose every aspect of the court case(s) pending and future? Then what? They continually vote no on subsequent offers until the above mentioned release comes and they have the votes for a strike and BINGO bye bye US.

With the current cash position of US Airways I'm betting a UA style job action would sink US.

That is assuming that LCC is still in one piece operating as a standalone airline that far into the future. A pretty big if right now.

 

[Captain Underpants]

Remember UA's "Summer of He!!"?

Suppose they lose every aspect of the court case(s) pending and future? Then what? They continually vote no on subsequent offers until the above mentioned release comes and they have the votes for a strike and BINGO bye bye US.

With the current cash position of US Airways I'm betting a UA style job action would sink US.

Bob,

You are absolutely correct. The question of whether USAirways pilots strike is not if but when. Trying to force an unfair seniority list like Nic is idiotic and puts the company in jeopardy. The responsibility for the consequences of Addington rests entirely with the West pilots.

A CHAOS strike is both legal and effective. Scabs can't get in. The company cannot fire or discipline pilots for participating in a legal strike and Federal courts are banned by law from issuing injunctions.

Kudos for understanding what even our own pilots don't get yet. The seniority problem gets fixed or the end result could be as you said "BINGO bye bye US".

underpants