US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 12/16-22

[exB717Flyer]

The east MEC (by the time the election was over, it was 100% morons, IMHO) fired the first shot, so the east pilots fired them.

Guess we must've missed all those recall motions after y'all discovered your MEC mislead and misinformed you. Instead of blaming a few individuals you scapedgoated the whole union. You just don't realize the source of your problems isn't your union no matter which one it is.

So how much has your live improved in your half-year of non-ALPA representation?
Chest-thumping aside, how good do you really feel about your chances in the DFR trial?

You may be thinking right now it was all worth it but you may not think so in a few months.

 

[cubfan]

Thanks for the reply. Your point about the future of the pilot group as a union shop is very interesting, considering all the attention big unions like the UAW are getting right now.

So what would the alternative to a union be? At will employment without representation? Do you think the rank and file would accept that?

Thanks again and Happy Holidays.

Employment w/o representation? I'm not sure how that would ever happen. Alot a folks spew their opinions on big DFR payouts, breaking the union, so on and so forth. Just my take which is not very educated, lets say NIC wins, I feel that would be the end of it. If some people think that a big payday would follow, I would bet they wouldn't put their mortage up against that decision. But lets say a big payday came true, I'm sure appeals would be filed, and it would be awhile before it was all over. Now lets say appeals fail, Usapa would file bk, enough time would have passed to have another vote, new union (in house or some other) would be in place contracts still in place. New contract starts with NIC, thats assuming they win on all counts, case closed. So, that being said I don't feel it would ever get that far, unless the new vote would be a vote for no union at all, And NO I don't think the rank and file would accept that at all......

Happy Holidays to you also.

 

[Metroyet]

Ho hum...

That will likely mean a jury trial, and that will be the end of any chance at a decision in 2009. (The judge already told you folks that having a jury will delay the case.)

And then, (if) any huge damages get to be reviewed by the judge for fairness.

And then, the appeals start.

And then MAYBE it might bankrupt USAPA.

At that point we are non-union until another union can be voted in.

Think you'll get enough cards for a vote? Maybe.

Think you'll get a majority vote for whatever union you guys cook up? Hardly.

And there it is. In a nutshell. Your willingness and enthusiasm for using USAPA as a tool to block and otherwise frustrate the due process that was already agreed upon by both groups is the heart of why you guys are being sued. USAPA exists for one solitary reason, to evade the implementation of the Nic. That my friend a clear DFR and is patently illegal. Our attorneys put on their own road shows and illustrated, ad nauseum, how many ways the Bradford/Seham band of Angry FO's violated US labor law, and more basically contract law. It's quite the laundry list that concludes that the very foundation of USAPA was illegal as it was custom designed to disenfranchise the minority. There is no "do over."


Believe me when I say that there is literally a MOUNTAIN of archived evidence, of all forms, that makes this fact crystal clear. The best part is that there is 100x more out there waiting to be discovered.

I wonder why USAPA is so frightened of the Discovery process? I wonder why Seham has been replaced? I wonder why USAPA claims that "attorney client privilege" is only applicable to the East pilots of the ONE union and is fighting tooth and nail to bury as much material as they can?

I wonder what kinds of things may have been said in private emails between the founders of this fake union.
I wonder what kinds of advice Seham was providing?
I wonder what Seham is referring to when he advises that by throwing out alpa, USAPA can reach "their goal"?

I wonder what "the goal" is/was?


I'm sure nothing incriminating will be turned up. Certainly not from your Sec./Treas. Mr. "hothead" King. Sure. I'm guessing Bradford et.al aren't getting much sleep these days.



Here is where you guys start jumping up and down screaming that it was a fair election, "majority rules!!!" and the NMB authorized it. The NMBs only function in all of this is vote counting for a new CBA election. They have no knowledge of, or interest in, the Ulterior motives of a group. That's where Judge Wake takes over.

 

[Metroyet]

Actually, taken as a statement on it's own, being "ripe for adjudication" simply means that the Court finds that there are no procedural impediments (such as required administrative law hearings, grievance hearings or any other type of non-judicial proceedings) that must occur before the Court can take jurisdiction of the case and subsequently enter an appropriate Judgment once it's proceedings are completed.

Right. Which is exactly why this is Bad for USAPA. They're initial claim was that the Judge didn't have Jurisdiction and they requested that the case be dismissed.

Didn't quite happen that way.

 

[hp_fa]

Right. Which is exactly why this is Bad for USAPA. They're initial claim was that the Judge didn't have Jurisdiction and they requested that the case be dismissed.

Didn't quite happen that way.

Most defendants in most courts will dispute jurisdiction as part of their defense and incorporated in their Answer (to the initial Complaint). It will be stated as something as "failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted." Fed.R.Civ.P. 12(b)(6)

What does appear somewhat unique is that USAPA claimed that the litigation was both premature and tolled (late). It usually is not a good idea to pursue two differing tacts that are diametrically opposed like that. Pick your best argument and showcase it is generally a better strategy.

 

[hp_fa]

So just playing devil's advocate here, realizing there is going to be a trial, let me ask one simple question?

How does the current economic situation of the world figure into this equation? Do you think that it will affect a judge or jury's thought process?

Art, I honestly think those matters will not be consciously be considered. However, no one can say with any degree of certainty what factors may be involved subconsciously.

Happy Holidays to you also sir.