US Pilots Labor Discussion-Aug 5 to 12-KEEP ON TOPIC

[nic4us]

RICO's broad application was the result of Congress' inclusion of mail and wire fraud as two crimes upon which a RICO claim could be brought.


Today, RICO is almost never applied to the Mafia. Instead, it is applied to individuals, businesses, political protest groups, and terrorist organizations. In short, a RICO claim can arise in almost any context.
You sure?....

just a little context for your "misuse" claim.

The more appropriate venue would have been a small claims court in Mecklenburg county. USAPA would have probably won that one, got their money back and stopped the harrasment. Instead, they spent $239,000 and counting and risked losing large sums if any of the defendants decide to sue for malicious prosecution.

So I can say it with confidence, this was a misuse of the RICO act, and a federal judge agrees with me and threw it out of his courtroom with prejudice. Why do you think USAPA had to appeal?

If AOL used Seham's strategies, when the DOL gets done investigating the charges of election fraud, AOL should file RICO charges against USAPA, that way we get three times damages plus legal fees. After all USAPA conspired to steal from the West by breach of contract. They used electronic means to advertise their intent and carry it out. So I think you are right, that RICO act should be applied across the board and USAPA's founders and members should be named in a suit.

 

[des nudo]

AOL should file RICO charges against USAPA, that way we get three times damages plus legal fees. After all USAPA conspired to steal from the West by breach of contract. They used electronic means to advertise their intent and carry it out. So I think you are right, that RICO act should be applied across the board and USAPA's founders and members should be named in a suit.

Hilarious. A DFR decision turning into stealing now? OK. I think you should start the paperwork forthwith. However, I'm glad you agree that RICO charges wwere indeed not so "over the top" as you asserted earlier. Especially since the guilt of some members, coupled with the glowing encouragement from AWAPPA's chatboard and thusly it's BOD...is essentially THE recipe for a RICO suit.

Sue away.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Until the East and West can work together nothing good will happen to either pilot group.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[exB717Flyer]

Until the East and West can work together nothing good will happen to either pilot group.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

We'll be able to work together when the East stops what it began in 2007 when it withdrew from joint negotiations: working against the West.

 

[ClueByFour]

Hilarious. A DFR decision turning into stealing now? OK. I think you should start the paperwork forthwith. However, I'm glad you agree that RICO charges wwere indeed not so "over the top" as you asserted earlier. Especially since the guilt of some members, coupled with the glowing encouragement from AWAPPA's chatboard and thusly it's BOD...is essentially THE recipe for a RICO suit.

Sue away.

Curious: why did the US Attorney for the Western District of NC take a pass on this clearly criminal action?

You lost, because even the feds were not interested. I'd move on before continuing to make oneself look foolish.

 

[tech2101]

Wow. I haven't been to this thread in many, many, months; maybe a year.

Are you guys still that fractured?

 

[Beancounter]

QUOTE (spike99 @ Aug 5 2009, 08:25 PM) *
Did or did not the West MEC demand the East pay rates not be brought up to parity with the West rates?



Yes...you did.

So much for ANYTHING else we need ever reasonably listen to from the west about, well...anythng at all, EVER, except of course, the often stated position of west posters that they'd gleefully cross any USAPA picket line.

I'm one west pilot that will never cross a picket line.

As for someone else's post about having to wait to see about the appeal before removing USAPA. I'm not saying we should remove USAPA. We mind as well wait for the appeal. The chance for a good contract is gone, I'm fine with waiting.

 

[Beancounter]

Wow. I haven't been to this thread in many, many, months; maybe a year.

Are you guys still that fractured?

Yes. It looks like the NIC is here to stay. The east says no new contract with the NIC. No combined pilot group without a new contract. Things are pretty much at a standstill. That is unless there is another merger. Then everyone comes out of the trenches.

 

[cleardirect]

I'd like to explore your premise.

If I steal your car and get away with it, am I a "criminal" or not?

Am I only a "criminal" if I get caught? Or if I get prosecuted? Or is the act of stealing your car a qualifier for me being a "criminal".

Based on your posts, I'm only guilty if I get caught.

I see.

Maybe you could use your extensive legal background and explain what to takes to be guilty of violating the RICO statutes. You see in your example, stealing a car is straight forward. RICO involves a few specific things.

Maybe you could specifically point out the part of the RICO law that says that calling public information 800 numbers is a violation of RICO. Please point out the part of RICO that makes someone guilty by posting on a private web site.

Your hypothetical has nothing to do with this situation. The malicious attacks on individuals was submitted to the court. Your hometown local federal judge looked at the facts and the law and threw it out with prejudice. This was not a case of a judge or jury finding someone not guilty. This is a case where the charges do not even conform to the law. Seham failed to even understand what he was charging.

I tell you what. Go read the dismissal, Document 97. Then come back and explain to us what part of the law the judge got wrong. Then go read usapa’s appeal and the defendents response and remember that usapa has been found liable of DFR and is not allowed to negotiate for DOH.

Until you have done that you really should stop speaking about things you know nothing about.

Nic4us is right. Malicious prosecution charges could be very expensive for usapa. Back in about April the board offered a deal to the individuals. They were willing to settle for less than $700. TOTAL. This is after spending $239,000 prosecuting this failed case. Why would they do that after charging such major crimes? Do you consider spending $239,000 for zero return a good use of union money?

So the difference is stealing a car makes you a criminal. Having charges filed against someone that does not even come close to meeting the law. Makes the person or group that filed false charges a criminal. A court decides if they are guilty or not. We may find out that usapa is a criminal and guilty. In that case it will once again get expensive for a group that started with bad intentions and have gotten worse.

 

[traderjake]

....it is about a senile 80 year old who got it very wrong in our opinion.

Was the Delta Northwest Arbitration panel comprised of senile 80 year olds?

The arbitration before and after the Nic are the same as the Nic.

Staying wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence is stupid.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Was the Delta Northwest Arbitration panel comprised of senile 80 year olds?

The arbitration before and after the Nic are the same as the Nic.

Staying wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence is stupid.

You call Nicolau senile.

Proof? What you state could be defamation of character, and its out here in the open, be careful what you say.

Truth is......east pilots agreed to abide by Nicolau's decision. So did the west, so did the company, and 2 of the 3 were ok with the decision. East got all butt hurt and have wasted years of time and tons of money.

And you are in such denial. All of you deniers should be charged for what you have all cost the airline in productivity. Nic is it, get over it. Only reason that 9th Circut is happening so soon is that the west is more than happy to see your foolish lawyers march off the cliff, the sooner the better.

 

[des nudo]

Maybe you could use your extensive legal background and explain what to takes to be guilty of violating the RICO statutes. You see in your example, stealing a car is straight forward. RICO involves a few specific things.

Maybe you could specifically point out the part of the RICO law that says that calling public information 800 numbers is a violation of RICO. Please point out the part of RICO that makes someone guilty by posting on a private web site.


So the difference is stealing a car makes you a criminal. Having charges filed against someone that does not even come close to meeting the law.

My my...kinda testy..and it took you all day to come up with this?

I'll only do your homework just this once:

Wire Fraud

A situation where a person concocts a scheme to defraud... This criminal act is done using electronic communications or an interstate communications facility.

(Investopedia Commentary)

Like any type of fraud, wire fraud is a federal offense. A person can be found guilty for their misuse of a communication facility, regardless of whether their scheme actually defrauded anyone.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but for those defendants who were documented with hundreds of calls from numbers registered to themselves; this is all that is necessary. Perhaps USAPA cast too large a net and included some conspirators who didn't actually make calls, but rather aided and abbetted the guilty parties...perhaps. The telephonic fraud is clear....and that is all that is required to satisfy wire fraud.

As I recall, many of the defendants used their own cell phones to commit this fraud. Many bragged about going down a bank of payphones and calling in to the safety line and drop the recievers...

remember?

Of course you do.

 

[exB717Flyer]

In recent years as he has aged Mr Nicolau has been overturned lending credence to the senility comments.

Really? That's first time I've ever heard that. Could you please cite references to support your assertion?

And BTW, contrary to what some Easties have claimed Mr. Nicolau is still actively ruling on cases. He just arbitrated a major Eagle ALPA case.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Wow. I haven't been to this thread in many, many, months; maybe a year.

Are you guys still that fractured?

Well, yes. But only if you can characterize the Grand Canyon as a fracture.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Was the Delta Northwest Arbitration panel comprised of senile 80 year olds?

The arbitration before and after the Nic are the same as the Nic.

Staying wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence is stupid.

First, DL/NW were smart enough to throw ALPA policy out the window when combining their lists. They saw what a single senile 80 year old could accomplish, and said we will have none of that.

Second, the makeup of the two pilot lists were nothing at all like the US/AW rosters. They were much more similar in seniority (DOH). Not perfectly aligned, but far from the disparity on the US/AW lists. (Show me a NW pilot, or DL pilot, whose DOH is 17 years different than the guy next to him/her on the list.)

DL management ameliorated many of the slight inequities by shelling out great money to keep their pilots happy. We get the confiscatory Kirby proposal. No, thank you very much.

It's not even comparing apples and oranges. Maybe apples and radishes.