US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Piedmont1984]

1. 18-24 months or a quick denial.
2. At least 12 more months to arbitration. Unless you guys will accept Hogg's answer at the VP level.
3. Irrelevant to our situation. 12-24 months anyway.
4. Unknown time frame.

Fact not opinion.

1. So if it's nay - we will know soon.
2. Would you accept it? How long have we been out of BK? Shouldn't we at least "press to test"?
3. Fair enough.
4. Look at it from the standpoint of airline industry health. The longer it's poor, the sooner LCC will need to make a move - short time frame. If things begin to improve, less pressure on the pilots to decide on a marginal contract - and gives us more time to wait for developments in #s 1,2 and 3.

 

[Poug Darker]

Ok boys, what's the rush? The "too many RJ's" grievance results are imminent. Sources at RAL say they are ALREADY planning on moving those 15 or 18 airframes to Midwest...If the remedy includes bringing back the furloughs they'll be happy to work on the 190, bumping up the guys there to Group 2's again.
Next, LOA 93 pay freeze expiration at the end of the year. Those Group 2 guys go from 85 to 121, then up another 3% to 125 on May 1 of next year.
Group 2 captains from 125 to 178, then 183 on May 1. The only guys getting screwed are the 190 guys - and a betting man would predict a vast shift in personnel on that equipment. Get ready Training dept.
A new contract would be ok because of the improvements in duty rigs and vacation days, but with LOA 84 pay my guess is that most of the east guys can live with the rest of the provisions of LOA 93 while the union negotiates a new contract - one that had better offer 'more and better' (a lot) in order to pass, especially with the loss of job security and loss of expected future pay with NIC.
Cheers

 

[AAA#6]

What does LM-2 actually stand for? I know what it means in a functional way, but what is the actual term? Also, when is the next one due to be released?

LM2 is the annual report for unions so to speak and can be obtained from the Dept of Labor.


https://cslxwep1.dol-esa.gov/Disclosure/OrderLM1234.jsp


File number 543-770. It is public domain.

The USAPA team is incurring over $950K on their own. People really should look at the other stuff.

I am sure USAPA doesn't want us to see it.

 

[N924PS]

Deleted by me.

 

[N924PS]

By the way a really misss my ALPA magazine, I and want a job at ALPA national. And yes I'm afraid to fight and I'm in the top 500 so I just want a contract at any cost. How typical.

When this is all over, one way or another, I hope the East pilots don't find that all they've done in the name of "Seniority Matters" is spend millions of dollars on lawyers and damages only to find out they're right back to May 3, 2007. The date of the Nicolau.

-I don't miss the ALPA magazine.
-I don't want a job at ALPA or USAPA for that matter.
-I do want a contract that serves the needs of ALL USAirways pilots:by law it will include the Nic.

No one's afraid to fight. Just not for a lost cause.

 

[HPDriver]

Next, LOA 93 pay freeze expiration at the end of the year.

Uhhhh, nope.

Cheers.

 

[Freighterguynow]

If the Nic is definitely going to be the list, then VNIIMTN is cutting off your nose... Might as well get off LOA 93, and sentiment is shifting in that direction. Time for the senior F/O's to consider the junior F/O's on the 190.

Well with the Nic in place 175 West pilots would have come East and kicked every-single-one of those E-190 pilots to the street.

You can bet I'm thinking of them VNIIMTN

 

[HPDriver]

What are you smoking! Your illustrious leaders ( yours, never claimed them to be mine) won't even negotiate. It's going to cost them their "bonus money". Doesn't matter what happens in the courts. The money managers will drag on, and on, and on. Let see Judge Wake get the company to the table. Then, you might have something. Until then........ months? get used to that fact.

Keep grasping. The company stated at the last hearing with Wake that they wanted a single contract. Now, with Wake backing them, they'll be at the table waiting for USAPA to make a mistake and bring on Wake's first injunctive order.

I wonder how much the fine is going to be?

Anyway, as I said before, it'll be a matter of months.

Now, continue getting used to that fact.

 

[jetjok1]

Keep grasping. The company stated at the last hearing with Wake that they wanted a single contract. Now, with Wake backing them, they'll be at the table waiting for USAPA to make a mistake and bring on Wake's first injunctive order.

I wonder how much the fine is going to be?

Anyway, as I said before, it'll be a matter of months.

Now, continue getting used to that fact.

Why don't you enlighten me and the rest of the posters just what are the reasons why the company will " come to the table"

What the want (crowd pleasers) and what they do (it would cost them a ....load of moola) are apples and oranges. They don't need
wait for USAPA to make a mistake. His remedy has been spelled out. Let's see the company react.........time will tell and it won't be by the end of the year IMO.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The "too many RJ's" grievance results are imminent. Sources at RAL say they are ALREADY planning on moving those 15 or 18 airframes to Midwest...If the remedy includes bringing back the furloughs they'll be happy to work on the 190, bumping up the guys there to Group 2's again.

First, if the union wins the "too many RJ's" grievance, it doesn't mean that there'll be more mainline planes (just fewer RJ's).

With no more mainline planes, there's no need to recall furloughees unless the arbitrator says to as part of the remedy.

If furloughees are required to be recalled with no extra mainline planes, they'd just be added to the E190 F/O roster - the least expensive place to park those furloughees until attrition creastes vacancies in other (better paying) positions.

So unless the company loses the grievance (possible) and is forced to add mainline planes (unlikely), any recalls will face E190 F/O pay/working conditions as reserves. It pretty much the same as has happened on the East side several times since 1991, except there wasn't a transition agreement the other times (just the contract).

Jim

 

[Elevation]

Jim

I don't believe any of this will happen but for the sake of argument, Isn't this grievance system wide not just east? Why would west furloughs be recalled to the 190?

 

[ableoneable]

Keep grasping. The company stated at the last hearing with Wake that they wanted a single contract. Now, with Wake backing them, they'll be at the table waiting for USAPA to make a mistake and bring on Wake's first injunctive order.

I wonder how much the fine is going to be?

Anyway, as I said before, it'll be a matter of months.

Now, continue getting used to that fact.

Considering the following:

1. Usapa re-opened all TAd sections of the contract the moment they got in the door.

2. Only four sections are now closed.

3. Usapa was not competent to nail down a complete TA even before the Addington litigation.

4. They certainly are not up to the task now.

5. The company would probably have a hard time swallowing the Kirby proposal today. The viability of USAir in the short to medium term is questionable.

6. Even if the "snapback" goes nowhere there are probably an insufficient number yes east pilot votes to approve a contract no richer than Kirby.

I can't see a single CBA in the near to medium term.

The only exception would be as a result of a 1113C motion under a chapter 11 filing. Should USAir survive it is possible we will be under the single list by next year but only if a bankruptcy judge is involved.

 

[AAA#6]

By the way a really misss my ALPA magazine, I and want a job at ALPA national. And yes I'm afraid to fight and I'm in the top 500 so I just want a contract at any cost. How typical.

In the 500?....from my experience the number of folks tired of USAPA and this whole lawsuit is way more than 500.
The so called resolve and stubborness that is shown here on this website represents a small portion of folks that would slit their wrists before accepting the Nic. Sorry, but wallets and work rule incentives will always out vote the few that are trying to stand for a principal, especially when that principal has been proven wrong in court. Eventually people succomb to something new to move on with life.

Its time to get rid of Cleary and company, they are costing us a lot of money and have not delivered.

 

[captainJack]

Yes: it would cost the company money. He won't do it.

So, you are admitting the judge is an agent for the company? As the company is not a party, I would think taking an unrelated parties concerns into consideration would should how corrupt this entire process is.

 

[luvthe9]

In the 500?....from my experience the number of folks tired of USAPA and this whole lawsuit is way more than 500.
The so called resolve and stubborness that is shown here on this website represents a small portion of folks that would slit their wrists before accepting the Nic. Sorry, but wallets and work rule incentives will always out vote the few that are trying to stand for a principal, especially when that principal has been proven wrong in court. Eventually people succomb to something new to move on with life.

Its time to get rid of Cleary and company, they are costing us a lot of money and have not delivered.

I guess the New Haven Fire Fighters should just taken the judges ruling without an appeal. Remember the reason we have an appeals court is because judges make mistakes, you sir are a coward and afraid of a fight. I'm glad we finally have someone in that represents the pilot majority, you also don't believe in democracy I take it. And I meant in the top 500 of the senoirity list, you don't seem to care about the junior pilots. They will be voting for your future when you are retired, think about it.