US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[HPDriver]

So what's USAPA up to?

1. They've asked Wake for a new trial - good luck
2. They're going to file a motion for an appeal in the 9th - going to go nowhere
3. Wait for snapbacks to arrive early next year - dreams
4. Delay, delay, delay - so that their pilots continue to lose money, especially their 190 pilots.

Anyone been to pilotloop.com? Read a post where a pilot is begging for some fund to be used to supplement his 190 pay.

Pathetic.

 

[Beancounter]

In 3-5 years.. No airline by then?

Some would argue that the best chance to have an airline still would be to keep sub-1990's wages, provided for in the current contracts, rather than have a single contract proposal (of sufficient increase to ensure ratification).

You're right, having the East on the old contract saves a bunch of money. I was thinking along the lines of having to merge with another carrier. It might be the only way to save what's left. The first merger saved US Airways from Chapter 7 and America West from Chapter 11. A lot of us might end up on the street, but at least there would be a company to come back to.

 

[HPDriver]

For those of you that think it'll take years to negotiate a new contract can think again.

It'll be done in a matter of months.

Get used to that fact.

 

[westcoastflyer]

For those of you that think it'll take years to negotiate a new contract can think again.

It'll be done in a matter of months.

Get used to that fact.

That is actually very possible, which is a very good thing for the MAJORITY of the US Airways pilots. Judge Wake, in his permanent injunction, orders that USAPA "Immediately, and in good faith, make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and implement a single collective bargaining agreement with US Airways that will implement the Nicolau Award seniority proposal unmodified."

 

[Beancounter]

That is actually very possible, which is a very good thing for the MAJORITY of the US Airways pilots. Judge Wake, in his permanent injunction, orders that USAPA "Immediately, and in good faith, make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and implement a single collective bargaining agreement with US Airways that will implement the Nicolau Award seniority proposal unmodified."

It wouldn't effect me, but with the improved work rules it sure would be nice to see all the furloughs recalled.

 

[nycbusdriver]

As 924PS has noted, there is a definite shift in the feelings of many of the pilots, since NIC will, by law, be the seniority list.

He's dreaming, as are you, if you think this is true.

 

[nycbusdriver]

That is actually very possible, which is a very good thing for the MAJORITY of the US Airways pilots. Judge Wake, in his permanent injunction, orders that USAPA "Immediately, and in good faith, make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and implement a single collective bargaining agreement with US Airways that will implement the Nicolau Award seniority proposal unmodified."

The NAC has made itself available almost 24/7 since June of last year. It's the company that won't meet more than a few days every three months or so. USAPA is, and has been, sitting at the table waiting for the company to show up. And, on the rare occasions that the company does attend, they bring concessions.

This is going no place, and it's not USAPA's fault.

 

[Megasnoop]

As 924PS has noted, there is a definite shift in the feelings of many of the pilots, since NIC will, by law, be the seniority list.

He's dreaming, as are you, if you think this is true.

(NOTE TO FILE: the appeal hasn't even been filed yet and the West and their East ALPA-phyles are already popping the bubbly)

Back East we know the antimosity between JS and Cleary. I think he'd rather have us lose the appeal if it meant sticking it Mike. We all saw his performance at the CLT/Parker meeting. Now he's got a "westcoastflyer" admirer. He's got a captive cockpit audience, sitting near the top of the list in CLT, Nic wont hurt him. West parity would probably make his day as long as it had the Nic. FOs roll their eyes and "yes-sir" him rather than debate. His "definite shift" is his mind fantasy. There's nothing any where near being on the table. The company wont even come to the table, except 2-3 times a month. Then they want to argue costing models. Current situation costs them about $25M/yr (ALPA's modeling). The old Kirby, which isn''t even the table any more would cost $130M/yr. (company estimate)

It's the quieter or less radical ones that don't waste their time on these boards, and who value family and other interests over incessant union and company bashing, that we don't get their opinions and true feelings from.

You mean like 924PS and his 1100+ posts?

Unduly delaying a contract is not only forbidden by the Judge Wake ruling, but it's a tremendous continual loss of money and quality-of-life for the pilots (especially East).

The standard party line. Its getting real old, Westcoast. There is no TA to delay. The company isn't serious. In fact after the verdict, Kirby said he didn't see a TA as long as Addington is in appeal. So we dont appeal? What kind of offer you think the company has? Hint, the Kirby isnt even there anymore.

There's not much movement right now, just stagnation, due to economic realities. Having every pilot stubbornly put off getting a much better contract just because they are unhappy (what else is new here) doesn't make sense for MOST of the US Airways pilots.

Not following you. "There's not much movement, due to economic realities" so we should be moving? The worst economy in 70 years and you think the company is going to give us a better contract? Where are you getting this stuff? Do you think anyone out East takes any of that seriously?

It was impossible to get a conversation going, everybody was talking too much. Yogi Berra

 

[Phoenix]

The NAC has made itself available almost 24/7 since June of last year. It's the company that won't meet more than a few days every three months or so. USAPA is, and has been, sitting at the table waiting for the company to show up. And, on the rare occasions that the company does attend, they bring concessions.

This is going no place, and it's not USAPA's fault.

Yeah, yeah.... but there WILL be a TA out for vote with Southwest rates + 5% by the end of Aug... not at this airline but maybe at some airline in some distant parallel universe, somewhere in time (I heard it on "Coast to Coast").

 

[luvn737s]

The east jettisoned the only effective pilot union they had ever known. Now, as with all non-union groups, the company has complete and uncontested control over the terms of any so-called bargaining. No one takes them seriously, regardless of badge backer color.

And that's gotta chafe.

When it's in the best interests of the company, Parker will force a TA and the pilots will accept it. Oh, the east might pretend, like a 3 year-old in front of the mirror, that they have super power and may even vote one down, but the response will be swift and sure.

In the east's version of Wonderland, the less legitimate they act (through DFR's, dead-end litigation, etc.), the better they accomplish their goal of doing nothing - USAPA's definition of success. I guess now they've decided to try the pill that makes them small.

All because USAPA decided it didn't need unity in it's union.

 

[luvthe9]

If you West guys ever wind up on the street some day (which may be coming) I am positive you can all get a fine job writing for the National Enquirer or the Star, you guys have some of the best spin I've seen, keep trying though somebody will believe it.

 

[cleardirect]

The NAC has made itself available almost 24/7 since June of last year. It's the company that won't meet more than a few days every three months or so. USAPA is, and has been, sitting at the table waiting for the company to show up. And, on the rare occasions that the company does attend, they bring concessions.

This is going no place, and it's not USAPA's fault.

Oh we know. Nothing is ever usapa's fault. There is always someone else to blame.

an senile old arbitrator, a biased, unfair judge, the evil west, the clueless thieves from the company. But never usapa.

 

[goneflyin]

My guess is that you'll have a joint contract by the end of the year. It will be negotiated under threat of an 1113 hearing.

 

[cleardirect]

(NOTE TO FILE: the appeal hasn't even been filed yet and the West and their East ALPA-phyles are already popping the bubbly)

The RICO apeeal was filed 9 months ago. How is that working out for you. If you don' understand. Just filing an appeal does not change anything. Currently, today the injunction is the rule.

West parity would probably make his day as long as it had the Nic. FOs roll their eyes and "yes-sir" him rather than debate. His "definite shift" is his mind fantasy. There's nothing any where near being on the table. The company wont even come to the table, except 2-3 times a month. Then they want to argue costing models. Current situation costs them about $25M/yr (ALPA's modeling). The old Kirby, which isn''t even the table any more would cost $130M/yr. (company estimate)

Would that be kind of like the captains that roll their eyes when the angry F/O's start on them about how the captains have to delay their better contract and wages for the junior f/O's?

2-3 times per month sounds like a lot. Do you mean 2-3 DAYS per month? Why do you think that is? Could it be because the company has no respect for usapa and knows Cleary el al has no leverage?

You really should read your own filings. Seham has stated in open court in the last week that the Kirby is still on the table. Did he lie to the judge. Again, or are you misinformed or misstating for the masses?

The standard party line. Its getting real old, Westcoast. There is no TA to delay. The company isn't serious. In fact after the verdict, Kirby said he didn't see a TA as long as Addington is in appeal. So we dont appeal? What kind of offer you think the company has? Hint, the Kirby isnt even there anymore.

Why isn't the company serious? Because they think usapa is a joke of a union. The leadership is unless with no leverage.

Read the usapa filings and transcript. The Kirby is still on the table. Accourding to Seham.

Not following you. "There's not much movement, due to economic realities" so we should be moving? The worst economy in 70 years and you think the company is going to give us a better contract? Where are you getting this stuff? Do you think anyone out East takes any of that seriously?

Yes thank you east pilots for the delay that caused us to try and get a contract in these times. Nice. I think I see the east problem. The company never ever GIVES pilots a contract. We only get what we can negotiate. With usapa negotiating we are never going to get anything.

 

[HPDriver]

If you West guys ever wind up on the street some day (which may be coming) I am positive you can all get a fine job writing for the National Enquirer or the Star, you guys have some of the best spin I've seen, keep trying though somebody will believe it.

Said the USAPA guy.