US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Phoenix]

You have to be kidding those bills are a drop in the bucket compared to what our old ALPO regime used to spend, remember La Jolla, how about the picture of Pollock horse back riding in PHX on my dime along with his family. Don"t even go there. And you might not like the course USAPA is on the fact is we got screwed big time by ALPA. And yes the economy sucks at present and will for a while longer.

And thats just the tip of the iceberg for our beloved AAA reps at ALPA. How 'bout we engage in some truth in advertising and admit the percentage of AAA dues that disappeared into the lap of the mother of all comfort.

After all we have experienced, it amazes me there still seems to be a few who would advocate giving away a pilot's right to vote because we might hurt ourselves.

 

[Barrister]

I just don't understand this (EAST) pilot group at all.

You have a union that is spending money like crazy. Look at the LM-2 for USAPA. They have spent $1.8M on Seham, mostly on something he could never deliver, and frankly I am not impressed with this guy. He has played USAPA for his own benefit, and will continue to rake it in, until this pilot group decides they have had enough.
USAPA is racking up hotel bills for board meetings that are in the mid tens of thousands of dollars. I expect the union to have expenses, but why do they need to go to Hyatt, Hilton's and such. Can't the work get done at a Holiday Inn Express? Now they want 85 hours plus extra for a stipend? Come on, I thought this was a pilot's union. They are acting just like ALPA. While we are eating Sabarros in the terminal, I am sure they are expensing steak dinners. I have no faith in Cleary and company anymore and I will not support USAPA.

Educate yourself and look at the LM-2 they filed and ask yourself if these guys are really performing a useful service. I don't think so. We have E190 FO's that qualify for food stamps, a union that wants us to donate to a fund to help them, yet we have pilots that want to shoot down a contract for the sake of the Nic. A little contradictory. Give me a break already. Face it. It's time to move on and act as one pilot group and hopefully be in position when the economy turns the corner. Otherwise we have no reason to moan about LOA93 and why we continue to live off it.

The Nic is in place, it will not get overturned because there are so many smoking guns here its not even funny. It will not even get changed in BK (gosh forbid we go there). USAPA will have no leverage what-so-ever in BK proceedings, and the BK judge will not touch the injunction because it has no play in reorganization with creditors, and its an injunction involving RLA rights.

Also, the company is now on record that the Nic is Nic, and they want a single CBA. THEY ARE ON RECORD. It's pointless to keep the crosshairs on the AWA pilots after the company has made such a statement.

So what do I see....another ALPA drive and this time the WEST will probably succeed in getting the 500+
East votes (including me) that they need.

I'm done.

Captain A320
CLT

Hey Capt A320,

How bad the flood is depends on how high up the hill your house is built. Care to post your number for all to see.

VNIIMN

 

[hp_fa]

ALPA has plenty of proxies to throw stones. But Prater lives in a champagne glass house, or maybe it was tiffany... oh whatever.

Never underestimate Prater though, didn't he bring the independent CAL union back to the mother ship... to return to walking the streets for papa?

The question does arise, at leat to me, that even if management at USAPA changed what makes anyone think that ALPA or any other union wants to be affiliated with the US Airways pilots? Seriously, after all the turmoil, the mess regarding the DFR and the ill will permeating the place, what makes anyone actually believe that any union wants anything to do with the IS Airways pilots?

BTW, Phoenix that comment was not aimed at you, but rather your comment caused my general comment.

 

[hp_fa]

Here is the LM2 for USAPA.

I don't see the attachments. Did they get taken down or not get posted properly?

 

[luvthe9]

The question does arise, at leat to me, that even if management at USAPA changed what makes anyone think that ALPA or any other union wants to be affiliated with the US Airways pilots?

BTW, Phoenix that comment was not aimed at you, but rather your comment caused my general comment.

Well let me think, those whor*es down at national would like our 14 to 15 million a year back in their pockets. It's all about the money. ALPA took back all the Continental scabs after I paid all sorts of assessments for quite a while.

 

[HPDriver]

You have to be kidding those bills are a drop in the bucket compared to what our old ALPO regime used to spend, remember La Jolla, how about the picture of Pollock horse back riding in PHX on my dime along with his family. Don"t even go there. And you might not like the course USAPA is on the fact is we got screwed big time by ALPA. And yes the economy sucks at present and will for a while longer.

How about that USAPA BPR. I seem to remember a promise to hold all their meetings at crew hotels.

That grievance committee has stuck by that one, haven't they.

In fact, I think everyone over there forgot about that promise.

 

[ClueByFour]

As long as USAPA doesn't violate the injunction (9th circuit notwithstanding), USAPA can reduce headcount with a modification of the TA. If the Nic passes from ALPA to USAPA, then so does USAPAs ability to modify the TA.

Wake will proceed to enjoin that in about 6 seconds. Reading the finding of law might be apropos.

As long as the TA modification doesn't violate good faith bargaining using the Nic to get a TA, the judge can't do a thing.

Again, reading the finding of law helps. To wit:

USAPA will be ordered to negotiate in good faith for the implementation of the Nicolau Award, defending that award in negotiations and presenting it with the single new CBA to the pilots for ratification vote. This remedy was requested by Plaintiffs and pled in the First Amended Complaint. It promises to address the problem at hand without limiting the negotiation of independent employment terms. Implicitly, it also precludes the union from acting to undermine the Nicolau Award through collateral provisions in the agreement, and from failing to negotiate toward a single CBA that includes the Nicolau Award.

and

The injunction will not address speculative examples of malfeasance.

and

The Court will expressly retain jurisdiction to modify, extend, or vacate relief, which should be adequate to meet any unforeseen events.

and

As already explained, the abusive wishes of the majority do not become legitimate simply because they are asserted in a ratification vote.

Now, if you try to further screw the west pilots with the majority hammer, Wake turns that "implicitly" into "explicitly." Sort of how you managed to take something (Nicolau) which might have been negotiable under ALPA and get it codified into a Federal injunction.

At what point does the stupid bluster quit down in CLT or up in old Cranberry? And to think that the fools on the BPR continue to toss money at Seeham for the kind of advice returned. It's astounding how easily a fool is parted from his money....

I'm glad Cleary and Bradford fly airplanes. They'd be laughed out of the room with this crap anywhere else....

 

[Poug Darker]

Assuming the grievance was won by the union and the settlement called for recalling furloughed pilots (two big assumptions), the transition agreement says that West furloughees get the same rights as East furloughees did - a chance to be recalled to openings on the East. The big question is where the "third list" furloughees would fall in the pecking order for any recalls - as the most junior of East pilots subject to recall before any West furloughees (the out of order furlough arbitrator's ruling on the "third list") or junior to all pilots on the combined list as the transition agreement says.

So it is possible, although not assured, that West furloughees could have the choice to be recalled to the East side before any "third list" pilots were recalled.

Jim

Jim,
There is no third list. That was determined by an arbitration months ago. There are only two lists, east and west, until the mythical 'joint contract'.
New hires that were assigned to the east come back to east positions, and west furloughs go to the west.

 

[hp_fa]

Read Item B near the bottom.



PARTIAL JUDGMENT
and
PERMANENT INJUNCTION

The Court has entered previous orders adjudicating all claims in No. CV 08-1728-PHX-NVW and all claims in No. CV 08-1633 PHX-NVW except the named Plaintiffs’
claims for damages other than for refund of union dues and fees and except for any claims for attorney fees. The jury has returned a verdict in No. CV 08-1633 PHX-NVW finding Defendant US Airline Pilots Association liable to the Plaintiffs and the class they represent of all pilots employed by US Airways, Inc., in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005. The Court expressly finds there is no just reason for delay in entry of this Partial Judgment and Permanent Injunction on all those matters previously adjudicated, and the Court expressly directs its immediate entry.

IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED that all claims in CV08-1728-PHX-NVW are dismissed with prejudice for failure to state a claim upon which
relief can be granted. (Doc. # 118.)

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED that Plaintiffs’ claims against Defendant US Airways, Inc., in No. CV 08-1633 PHX-NVW are dismissed for lack
of subject matter jurisdiction.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED in No. CV 08-1633 PHX-NVW that the claims of the Plaintiffs and the class of all pilots employed by US
Airways, Inc., in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005, against Defendant US Airline Pilots Association for refund of payments of union dues and fees are dismissed with prejudice for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. (Doc. # 287.)

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED in No. CV 08-1633 PHX-NVW in favor of the Plaintiffs and the class of all pilots employed by US Airways, Inc., in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005, that Defendant US Airline Pilots Association and its officers, committees, representatives, agents, and all persons in active concert and participation with them are permanently enjoined and ordered to:

A. Immediately, and in good faith, make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and implement a single collective bargaining agreement with US Airways that will
implement the Nicolau Award seniority proposal unmodified, according to its terms;

B. Make all reasonable efforts to support and defend the seniority rights provided by or arising from the Nicolau Award in negotiations with US Airways; and

C. Not negotiate for separate collective bargaining agreements for the separate pilot groups, but rather negotiate for a single collective bargaining agreement for both pilot groups that incorporates the Nicolau Award. This injunction does not restrain USAPA from pursuing its rights under Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act, consistent with the previous sentence.

The Court retains jurisdiction to enforce, modify, or dissolve the permanent injunction portion of this order. The Court retains jurisdiction to adjudicate the named Plaintiffs’ unadjudicated claims for damages and any claims for attorney fees.

DATED this 17th day of July 2009.

 

[Megasnoop]

Try a recall. If you stop to think you will realize the current reps actually allow votes, while the folks you suggest should be returned to power denied such a recall vote, among many other votes such as the pension.

Not only did ALPA crush recalls the mother ship didnt like, but they "recalled" Reps in PHL they didn't like. Can't wait for their organization drive, Free food, drinks.

But by all means, lobby for a vote to give away your vote. Its a democracy for as long as the majority want it to be.

Thats what they should be doing, Bill. After all JS and his new best west buddy Westcoastflyer proclaimed the momentum has shifted their way. You know, democracy.

He hits from both sides of the plate. He's amphibious. Yogi Berra

 

[traderjake]

And yes I'm afraid to fight and ......

Some people confuse courage with being stupid.

 

[cleardirect]

So, you are admitting the judge is an agent for the company? As the company is not a party, I would think taking an unrelated parties concerns into consideration would should how corrupt this entire process is.

Try again. The company is a party to this. Please read the documents before you post.

A. Immediately, and in good faith, make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and
implement a single collective bargaining agreement with US Airways that will
implement the Nicolau Award seniority proposal unmodified, according to its terms;

B. Make all reasonable efforts to support and defend the seniority rights provided
by or arising from the Nicolau Award in negotiations with US Airways;

 

[john john]

there is no way would get away with negotiating that kind of change without Judge Wake having something to say about it.

How can a judge in Arizonan imposed a contract under the RLA on the party’s if they haven’t agree on it. If so let the surviving contract of the repressive exist. This judge is taking bargaining away for the RLA which has existent since 1926 RLA provides for orderly settlement of all disputes concerning rates of pay, rules, or working conditions Employees have the right
It’s the law

 

[john john]

Harvard grad

USAirways had one of them running the airline for about a year. BOD and Lakefield fired him

 

[john john]

There is NO WAY the fleet min is being reduced on the West without Judge Wake agreeing to it.

Is this judge in Arizonan running the airline the union and all party’s involved