US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Barrister]

No one can say for certain how a vote will go, even if a T/A was in the offing to actually cast a vote.

However, what I observe, more and more East pilots including F/O's, believe it's time to concede the Nicolau.

You may be digging in deeper, but as an 76I Captain with an A330 bid, perhaps you can still pay your bills every month without dipping into your savings/retirement accounts. Most East F/O's are not so lucky, especially those on the E190.
[
924PS,
I believe you are writing this with an agenda as you may well accuse me of same, but I know NO ONE out East who doesn't have a steel resolve to see this to the end. It will take 2 years until we get contract to even vote on and by then retirements will kick in in the East. Financial circumstance and third parties (not judicial unless BK) will greatly influence what happens here....but you won't see NIC, if at all, for at least 3-5 years. You got the staying power for that .....as I wrote....pull up a chair, get comfortable....it's going to take awhile.
And by the way.......no one here is bad mouthing USAPA except the old ALPA guard.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Unless I am grossly mistaken next week plaintiffs' counsel will probably be filing a claim with the Court for attorneys fees and costs as the prevailing party in a class action lawsuit pursuant to Rule 23 (h), Fed.R.Civ.P. I don't have any access to the numbers, nor should I at this point, but my guess would be in excess of $700,000.00.

I thought attorney fees are typically awarded as a percentage ( around 20% ) of any monetary damages. Since this is an injunction ....... ?

 

[hp_fa]

I thought attorney fees are typically awarded as a percentage ( around 20% ) of any monetary damages. Since this is an injunction ....... ?

Hi Freighter,

That is a good question.

In class actions that are designed to recover money from a potential tortfeasor (wrong doer in a claim sounding in tort) this would be true. An example would be a company that manufactured and distributed an allegedly unsafe product or a company that allegedly misrepresented services to the public where they were sued in a class action and either lost or entered into a settlement agreement. The court would then hold proceedings awarding class counsel appropriate costs and fees that would normally be a percentage of the value of the amount awarded to the class.

The Addington case is different. They sued for injunctive and equitable relief and the case became a hybrid case. Even though the case is not fully resolved as to damages, it is fully resolved as to injunctive relief and liability. while retaining jurisdiction to reopen the issues of injunctive relief and attorneys fees. The last paragraph of the Order states as follows:

The Court retains jurisdiction to enforce, modify, or dissolve the permanent injunction portion of this order. The Court retains jurisdiction to adjudicate the named Plaintiffs’ unadjudicated claims for damages and any claims for attorney fees.

So, under the applicable scenario the Addington counsel, who are certified as class counsel by previous order of the Court, may submit for attorneys fees. As I stated earlier I would expect that to occur very soon.

 

[N924PS]

924PS,
I believe you are writing this with an agenda as you may well accuse me of same, but I know NO ONE out East who doesn't have a steel resolve to see this to the end. It will take 2 years until we get contract to even vote on and by then retirements will kick in in the East. Financial circumstance and third parties (not judicial unless BK) will greatly influence what happens here....but you won't see NIC, if at all, for at least 3-5 years. You got the staying power for that .....as I wrote....pull up a chair, get comfortable....it's going to take awhile.
And by the way.......no one here is bad mouthing USAPA except the old ALPA guard.

Yes, I have an agenda. I would like to see the pilots of USAirways close ranks, East and West, and obtain the best contract achievable. That contract will, by law now, include the Nicolau Award with no fences.

Just to let you know. I did not vote for USAPA. From the first time I saw Seeham in action at an early USAPA organizational meeting, I never believed the Nicolau Award could be overturned.

It may be 2 years until there is a contract to vote on, but that T/A will include the Nicolau Award. If it includes appropriate improvements in pay, vacation, and scheduling, I will vote for it. And I know many pilots that feel the same way, including East F/O's.

 

[Beancounter]

[
924PS,
I believe you are writing this with an agenda as you may well accuse me of same, but I know NO ONE out East who doesn't have a steel resolve to see this to the end. It will take 2 years until we get contract to even vote on and by then retirements will kick in in the East. Financial circumstance and third parties (not judicial unless BK) will greatly influence what happens here....but you won't see NIC, if at all, for at least 3-5 years. You got the staying power for that .....as I wrote....pull up a chair, get comfortable....it's going to take awhile.
And by the way.......no one here is bad mouthing USAPA except the old ALPA guard.

Do you think a decent contract will be offered in 3-5 years? I agree we won't see anything soon. The NIC will most likely be there in 3-5 yrs, you can shed a lot in BK, but probably not that. It sounds like the plan is to hold off the NIC until the retirements start to kick in at around 3-5 years. OK, that's your choice to make. I hope there is still an airline here by then. Parker pushed back the debt, but our cash level is still low. Maybe if I'm and accountant full time I can watch this show w/ wine and cheese instead of cheap beer and hotel popcorn. Best of luck to all.

 

[Barrister]

Do you think a decent contract will be offered in 3-5 years? I agree we won't see anything soon. The NIC will most likely be there in 3-5 yrs, you can shed a lot in BK, but probably not that. It sounds like the plan is to hold off the NIC until the retirements start to kick in at around 3-5 years. OK, that's your choice to make. I hope there is still an airline here by then. Parker pushed back the debt, but our cash level is still low. Maybe if I'm and accountant full time I can watch this show w/ wine and cheese instead of cheap beer and hotel popcorn. Best of luck to all.

Dont' really know about time just suggesting that even in good times a contract takes 2-4years, plus the appeal on NIC and then the eventual shift in power from East to West with votes....assuming no BK this will takes years. There is no " Plan" just people voting how they feel.

Signed
Voting No if that means NIC

 

[SegmentKing]

Megasnoop,

I just lurk on these forums because I'm not a pilot.

However, I keep track because I worked with a lot of the MidAtlantic guys and feel their pain. 16 years at USAirways, uninterrupted mind you - in the sense that all flying was done on the MAINLINE CERT - yet Nicolau claims his time at MDA doesn't count. Multiply that by 20 folks. And then to think they go below Dave O'dell, who spent time as an ERJ driver before working at HP. I personally don't think its fair. I've already watched at USAirways flight attendants (MDA) had their lives destroyed when Republic only promised them interviews, now I'm sitting back and watching pilots salivate over their slots in Nic.

but again, I'm just an 'outsider' and not a pilot.

Regarding O'Dell and ERJs, anyone care to guess WHO WILL benefit from the parking of mainline planes?

Here's your multiple choice options:

1. Mesa
2. Republic
3. Chautauqua
4. Trans States
5. Mesa (did I mention Mesa?)
6. Colgan
7. Republic again. (could bring Shuttle America in the mix)
8. Jonathan Ornstein
9. Bryan Bedford

 

[nycbusdriver]

No one can say for certain how a vote will go, even if a T/A was in the offing to actually cast a vote.

However, what I observe, more and more East pilots including F/O's, believe it's time to concede the Nicolau.

You may be digging in deeper, but as an 76I Captain with an A330 bid, perhaps you can still pay your bills every month without dipping into your savings/retirement accounts. Most East F/O's are not so lucky, especially those on the E190.

Any E190 pilot out there wishing me, and those of my seniority, to roll over on the Nicolau:

Please PM. I will need your real name, and I will place my real name in your crew mailbox, simply to verify that you are who you are. We can then discuss hoew you really feel about this.

 

[Edward]

Folks this thread is very near being closed for the remainder of the cycle with no other discussion allowed.

What is you all do not understand about not making personal comments & posting comments that are designed to flame & cause trouble.

The trouble makers know who you are & you're about to get it closed for all. We are removing posts & giving out suspensions.

Gentlemen & ladies it's time to grow up.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

NO yield! Can't be, say it ain't so.

What happened to the strong east coast high yield markets? Gone.

With no yield where do you think the cuts will come now. I would say from the high COST routes. You see out here in the west we have been competing against SWA for a long time. We knew how to keep cost down. Your east coast management never learned that trick.

Anyway the west is at or below min hours and aircraft. Looks like the next round of reductions come from the place that has some to spare and could use some cost reductions.

Ask Dumb and Dumber later this month at the PHX crew news session. They could probably answer that question more appropriately so you could understand.

My guess is LAS and PHX.....

But again I would direct those questions to the individuals responsible in the appropriate venue.

 

[Phoenix]

Do you think a decent contract will be offered in 3-5 years? I agree we won't see anything soon. The NIC will most likely be there in 3-5 yrs, you can shed a lot in BK, but probably not that. It sounds like the plan is to hold off the NIC until the retirements start to kick in at around 3-5 years. OK, that's your choice to make. I hope there is still an airline here by then. Parker pushed back the debt, but our cash level is still low. Maybe if I'm and accountant full time I can watch this show w/ wine and cheese instead of cheap beer and hotel popcorn. Best of luck to all.

In 3-5 years.. No airline by then?

Some would argue that the best chance to have an airline still would be to keep sub-1990's wages, provided for in the current contracts, rather than have a single contract proposal (of sufficient increase to ensure ratification).

 

[Phoenix]

...the abusive wishes of the majority do not become legitimate simply because they are asserted in a ratification vote.

Now that's spot on.

I think I heard a couple naysayers say the same thing after the last presidential election.

 

[westcoastflyer]

It's important to realize that probably less than 20% of all pilots ever read or post on this or any other aviation web boards. The ones you hear from here, sometimes over and over, are usually the ones with more extreme views; i.e. the ones who feel they have been most negatively affected. It's the quieter or less radical ones that don't waste their time on these boards, and who value family and other interests over incessant union and company bashing, that we don't get their opinions and true feelings from. As 924PS has noted, there is a definite shift in the feelings of many of the pilots, since NIC will, by law, be the seniority list. Unduly delaying a contract is not only forbidden by the Judge Wake ruling, but it's a tremendous continual loss of money and quality-of-life for the pilots (especially East). There's not much movement right now, just stagnation, due to economic realities. Having every pilot stubbornly put off getting a much better contract just because they are unhappy (what else is new here) doesn't make sense for MOST of the US Airways pilots.

 

[SegmentKing]

westcoastflyer,

You almost hit the nail on the head with unhappy east pilots.

Its been like that since... 2001 ?

 

[traderjake]

This is an absolute lie. USAPA never guaranteed any results on the outcome of Nicolau.

USAPA said negotiating seniority was no different than negotiating crew meals.

They found out the hard way what everyone else already knew, that a legal arbitration award and crew meals are different.

Did they lie or are they that incompetent?