US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Pi brat]

If there was ever a case for malpractice . . .

Now there's a thought.

 

[cleardirect]

If there was ever a case for malpractice . . .

Now there is a little team building exercise that could bring the east and west together.

Common enemy.

Seham has done harm to both sides. Cost us all millions.

 

[Megasnoop]

Then allow me to help you catch up. DOH Cram Down Is Officially Dead. Read all about it in the latest edition from court room 504.

Thanks for the catchup, aquaman. The 9th Circuit ruled already? I didn't know that. "Cram down?" I don't remember the company agreeing to DOH, or did I miss that in my drunk stupor? But no doubt we got to good faith the NIC, at least until the 9th speaks.

Let's see,

IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED that all claims in CV08-1728-PHX-NVW are dismissed with prejudice for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. (Doc. # 118.) There goes Count 1 damages.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED that Plaintiffs’ claims against Defendant US Airways, Inc., in No. CV 08-1633 PHX-NVW are dismissed for lack of subject matter jurisdiction. Count 2 damages gone.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED in No. CV 08-1633 PHX-NVW that the claims of the Plaintiffs and the class of all pilots employed by US Airways, Inc., in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005, against Defendant US Airline Pilots Association for refund of payments of union dues and fees are dismissed with prejudice for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. (Doc. # 287.) Not only did Susie lose in arbitration, but the West "class act" lost that in court. So, pay up or find another job. I know, old CPA DH is working on that. Wait, he's an Eastie!

The jury has found USAPA liable to Plaintiffs and the represented class.[/1]
"Liable." I didn't see "guilty" anywhere in the ruling.

Damage proceedings remain for the six named Plaintiffs, except for the claims for general refund of union dues and fees, which have been denied as a matter of law.

So no million$ to the masses? Where all that hype go? Only damages (if any) to the 6? Oh, I forgot, the ALPA/USAPA conspiracy. And when (if ever) is Wake going to hear that?

Make no mistake, this was an expected loss for USAPA. But its not final. Now on to the 9th. Not much change from Wake's preliminary injunction. But we did fill all the squares for the 9th Circuit. It only takes 1 square to reverse.

Meanwhile, we'll act in good faith TRYING to get a TA out for vote including the NIC. If the company doesn't fight us, we might even get to use our NMB Sction 6 rights. As with any negotiation, it takes 2 to put a TA together. I never understood the argument about separate contracts. But for whatever reason I guess it had to be made. So we'll continue at the table with NIC as S22, pending the appeal. Maybe the company will come up with something that could be passed with the NIC. Narrow-body $170/hr in current financial climate?

Ahead we got LOA93/84 pay rates (or arbitration), $35 M lump sum, the 9th Circuit and what we should all be most concerned about: BK.

If you ask me anything I don't know, I'm not going to answer. Yogi Berra

 

[hp_fa]

There were actually many more instructive quotes in the Findings of Fact and Law filed today, but they are a bit drier and harder to comprehend for a lay person. For example, USAPA's gripes about the lack of an explanation of bad faith in the jury instructions. It turns out that was quite deliberate due to a previous decision of the 9th Circuit dealing with the bad faith issue. The Court addressed that quite convincingly and obviously had the whole thing in mind as it finalized those jury instructions.

I really doubt that anyone at SSM&P saw the scope of the judges Findings coming their way. Yes, they knew they were going to lose but the judge clearly dotted the "i's" and crossed the "t's" and had absolute understanding of the the facts and the law in this case and knew the precedents.

I suggest that you all read the document and once you do feel free to try and tell me where I am wrong or misreading this spanking.

The one thing that may still save SSM&P (although I think it is too late for that in practicality) is to not appeal so that this case does not become binding precedent. If this case is appealed they will be teaching this case in law school and seminars for years to come, and that is not a good thing.

 

[hp_fa]

So no million$ to the masses? Where all that hype go? Only damages (if any) to the 6? Oh, I forgot, the ALPA/USAPA conspiracy. And when (if ever) is Wake going to hear that?

Unless I am grossly mistaken next week plaintiffs' counsel will probably be filing a claim with the Court for attorneys fees and costs as the prevailing party in a class action lawsuit pursuant to Rule 23 (h), Fed.R.Civ.P. I don't have any access to the numbers, nor should I at this point, but my guess would be in excess of $700,000.00.

 

[Beancounter]

Unfortunately the only people making any money by pursuing this is the lawyers. I'm afraid the time for getting $170hr for narrow body Captains is gone. A friend at Alaska told me he just got $8000 for signing the new contract and $4000 in back pay. Yes, he's going to be furloughed in October, but when he comes back the FO pay at Alaska is now almost on par with pay for an East Captain. When you crunch the numbers the amount of pay that you guys have given away to pursue this just blows me away. You mind as well not stop now, the chance for $170hr is gone. I guess we just sit back with some popcorn and watch the lawyers get rich. How hard is it to switch from being an accountant to a lawyer?

 

[Beancounter]

Unless I am grossly mistaken next week plaintiffs' counsel will probably be filing a claim with the Court for attorneys fees and costs as the prevailing party in a class action lawsuit pursuant to Rule 23 (h), Fed.R.Civ.P. I don't have any access to the numbers, nor should I at this point, but my guess would be in excess of $700,000.00.

Wow, $700,000. Throw in a few hundred thousand more and you could have Ernst and Young prepare USAPA a nice yearly finacial statement. I'll bet by the time this dead horse is drug through the mud the bill will be a lot higher. Just my 1 1/2 cents.

 

[hp_fa]

Wow, $700,000. Throw in a few hundred thousand more and you could have Ernst and Young prepare USAPA a nice yearly finacial statement. I'll bet by the time this dead horse is drug through the mud the bill will be a lot higher. Just my 1 1/2 cents.

I know that this isn't what you want to hear, but I think my estimate is conservative.

The USAPA LM-2 only ran through early March and it was quite a bit higher and that didn't include the last six weeks before the trial, the trial and any post-trial work.

 

[A320 Driver]

Do you mean when oldie was inferring Nicolau is over?

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...c=40968&hl=

Truly priceless! LOL

God, what a great night!!! We have totally destroyed the malicious minority out east!

No, what you have done is add to the number of pilots that will vote NO forever. I have been VERY verbal in my condemnation of ALPA and USAPA for their poor decisions and negotiating, BUT, with every post I read I become more resolute to accept the consequences of my voting against ANY agreement that promotes the NIC and kills what little bit of a career our F/Os and junior Captains have left.

You enjoy your win. Gloat all you like.

A320 Driver <_<

 

[LSS]

Ummm, you can believe what ever you want, but I came out a winner today. Next stop is the remedy phase where you get to write me a check. After that, the bankruptcy judge where he hands you a contract with another 10% pay cut. What a way to end a career.

Whatever pay cut we get hammered with...guess what... you'll get the same rate of pay... no separate contracts...

 

[nycbusdriver]

Bucko,

You do whatever turns you on.

We absolutely intend to. I don't think the west pilots have a clue as to the extent of our resolve to keep you from your lottery winnings. The postings of west pilots here seem to think we on the east are weary of this battle. We are simply digging in deeper.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I don't think the west pilots have a clue as to the extent of our resolve to keep you from your lottery winnings.

We all have a clue, and so does a federal judge who says you are dead wrong.

All roads lead to Nicolau and given the circumstances of our industry, Nic will be here sooner rather than later.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Before and after its election, USAPA has misled the majority about
its power to improve their seniority prospects at the expense of the West Pilots.

This is an absolute lie. USAPA never guaranteed any results on the outcome of Nicolau. USAPA simply made it clear that ridding ourselves of ALPA was the only way we might be able to rid ourselves of Nicolau. Bradford and Cleary never made any promises about the outcome. In fact, Bradford was upfront about the likelihood of protracted litigation.

The will
of the East Pilots springs from a mistaken understanding of the law and mismanaged
expectations.

This is a serious misconception on your part. The will of the east pilots stems from the blatant unfairness and failure to follow ALPA merger policy. It has nothing at all to do with our "expectations." You and the rest of the west have seriously misread the situation and motivations on the east, and continue to do so.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hey tough guy, are you any angrier tonight??? I love tough talk!!! Especially on an anonymous message board where you are too afraid to put up your real name.

So when you are making that check out for a few grand after the remedy trial, try not to stroke out on us... Your entertainment value is too much around here.

And you can let us know, tough gal, how your dues protest went.

 

[SegmentKing]

that is assuming a contract gets voted in. Otherwise a court imposed contract could only come from a bankruptcy process, which in turn will probably mean layoffs & parking more planes - something the East is quite used to. When PHX gets downsized by 25%, laid off for a few years, called back, only to be told their time @ HP doesn't count anymore, will the West know how it feels