My view on Senate hearing on US Airways pension problem

[chipmunn]

Lawmakers going to bat for US Airways pensions[BR][BR]FINDLAY TWP. (Beaver County Times) - The pilots want it. US Airways wants it. But the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the federal corporation created to protect pension plans, says no.[BR][BR]Complete Story: [A href="http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.asp?brd=2305"]http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.asp?brd=2305[/A]

 

[fatburger]

Pitguy-[BR][BR]your response to Chip makes zero sense. tell me your smarter than that.[BR][BR]fatburger-

 

[real world]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/15/2003 10:51:39 PM chipmunn wrote:


Real World: Maybe, maybe not. It's to early to tell how the pilots will react, but I can tell you this. The anger is enormous because the overriding sentiment is Dave Siegel "torpedoed" our pension plan. The cuts this pilot group has given dwarfs what the other 30,000 employees have provided, plain and simple. Maybe the airline will survive and maybe it will not. Human behavior is a funny thing and strange things happen when emotion takes over.

As ALPA spokesman Roy Freundlich said, "We have enough time to pursue a legislative solution and we’re going to continue on that track. We're not interested in a company solution that guts our pension plan. The hearing on Thursday (bankruptcy hearing for the court to approve the disclosure statement to permit US Airways to merger from bankruptcy by March 31) is not on the reorganization plan itself. We still have time to pursue a legislative solution and that's what we're going to be doing."

It might be in the best interest of all employees for a legislation solution to the pilots pension be a success.
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Chip,

Why are the pilots opposed to Dave's offer of a pension plan that "matched the economics" of a restored benifit plan. How much of a difference is it to the pilot group and is it even a viable alternative in the pilots groups eyes?

 

[sdavis29]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/15/2003 10:51:39 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]Sdavis29:[BR][BR]I have not voiced my opinion on this subject and I'm still formulating my thoughts. In every post I have made on this subject I have discussed what I have heard from a majority of pilots I talked with at yesterday's hearing and throughout the day. I believe it's unfair for you to allude I have voiced an opnion that is 180 degrees different.[BR][BR]Chip[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]i do apologize to you chip...i did not edit this correct...i know you are only the messenger.[BR]sorry.[BR][BR][BR][/P]

 

[chipmunn]

[FONT size=2]Sdavis29: I have not voiced my opinion on this subject and I'm still formulating my thoughts. In every post I have made on this subject I have discussed what I have heard from a majority of pilots I talked with at yesterday's hearing and throughout the day. I believe it's unfair for you to allude I have voiced an opnion that is 180 degrees different.

Real World: Maybe, maybe not. It's to early to tell how the pilots will react, but I can tell you this. The anger is enormous because the overriding sentiment is Dave Siegel "torpedoed" our pension plan. The cuts this pilot group has given dwarfs what the other 30,000 employees have provided, plain and simple. Maybe the airline will survive and maybe it will not. Human behavior is a funny thing and strange things happen when emotion takes over.

As ALPA spokesman Roy Freundlich said, "We have enough time to pursue a legislative solution and we’re going to continue on that track. We're not interested in a company solution that guts our pension plan. The hearing on Thursday (bankruptcy hearing for the court to approve the disclosure statement to permit US Airways to merger from bankruptcy by March 31) is not on the reorganization plan itself. We still have time to pursue a legislative solution and that's what we're going to be doing."

It might be in the best interest of all employees for a legislation solution to the pilots pension be a success.
[/FONT]
Chip

 

[AP Tech]

I find it a bit ironic that a little over a week ago when the IAM was preparing to vote all we heard from many groups on the property was what a "no" vote would cause. There were many remember Eastern, Pan Am, Branif, ect, and how nobody won by shutting down the company. And then there was the vote "no" and lose severance, cobra, ect. Last and one of the most popular for all those(including myself) who voted "no", if you are not happy with your job, just resign!! It is strange how now that the shoe is on the other foot opinions have shifted to a different employee group about calling the companys bluff and shutting it down.

 

[sdavis29]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/15/2003 903 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]Pitguy:[BR][BR]Pitguy said: Repeating what I have heard from others "if you don't like it then quit". Then my friend you can put the blue vest on and pass out smiley face stickers to the children.[BR][BR]Chip answers: Pitguy, if a legislative solution fails, many pilots may quit while others are saying "let them close the doors -- it's no longer worth it to work here." There are plenty of jobs available that pay $60,000 per year that a pilot can perform in this industry. There is no doubt without the retirement plan at the end of the line, the pilot sentiment will shift. Siegel needs to find a solution to the problem that is satisfactory to ALPA or the end could be near.[BR][BR]Chip [BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]THIS SOUNDS FAMILAR[BR]seems like 2 weeks ago the yeesirs were telling everyone else to qiut..let the ones who want to stay never mind that some were voting themselves out of work or into a major pay cut...that was ok.[BR]now that there seems to be a glitch, and who is talking about shut down.."let them close the doors"[BR]talk about a 180....[BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][/P]

 

[real world]

Chip - My apoligies to you as well if this does not represent your opinion.

 

[chipmunn]

Savyinvestor said: It case you missed it what U is asking for is illegal, it encourages other companies to underfund and the PBGC is NOT funded by taxes, but by fees collected from companies that offer pension plans.

Chip comments: Savy, at yesterday’s hearing, the former PBGC General Counsel who wrote the PBGC Statute, aggressively challenged the PBGC Executive Director’s position. In counter-testimony, the former General Counsel articulated that the statutes and regulations did not prevent the PBGC from taking corrective action and said it “indeed provides the latitude for it to do so at its discretion.â€￾ He further stated the PBGC should grant US Airways plan for restoration funding.

A&P Tech said: It is strange how now that the shoe is on the other foot opinions have shifted to a different employee group about calling the company’s bluff and shutting it down.

Chip comments: Agreed. Maybe now some of the “naysayersâ€￾ will get their wish, unless the PBGC changes their tune, a legislative solution is obtained, or the company makes the pilot's whole. It will be interesting to see how this works out becasue I believe nobody (except the competition) wants to see this airline liquidate.

Chip

 

[AP Tech]

Believe me in saying I wish nothing more than for U to survive. I just felt that the last round of concessions for my group was a bit much, not to mention that I would have been voting myself out of a job with a "yes" vote. Hopefully this latest hurdle in the recovery of U will be taken care of!!

 

[chipmunn]

Real World:

Real World asked: Why are the pilots opposed to Dave's offer of a pension plan that "matched the economics" of a restored benifit plan. How much of a difference is it to the pilot group and is it even a viable alternative in the pilots groups eyes?

Chip answers: Yesterday ALPA President Captain Duane Woerth testfied at the Senate hearing that US Airways pilot's labor expense has been reduced by a whopping 46 percent. ALPA is concerend about terminating a plan without a new plan in place, which would have to be negotiated through collective bargaining. The pilot group has already agreed to pension cuts twice and without a suitable plan in place, ALPA is not interested in the "gutting" of its pension.

However, there are a couple of more interesting points.

PBGC Executive Director Steve Kandarin told the Senate Appropriations subcommittee on Tuesday that "In fact, IRS, not PBGC, has statutory authority for plan funding under ERISA, including waiving funding requirements for corporations in temporary difficulty."

Meanwhile, it is expected the Senate will revisit S.119 to permit US Airways pension restoration funding and we should also hear more news on the pension and other reorganization issues when the bankruptcy court reviews US Airways’ Confirmation Statement later today.

Chip

 

[delldude]

hearing tonite ,live from DCA...dave screws the pilots by testifying as to 'we don't need any congressional help'?we can resolve this??[BR]what gives here?[BR]is this true?

 

[ilg30/7]

[blockquote]
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On 1/15/2003 10:51:39 PM chipmunn wrote:

The cuts this pilot group has given dwarfs what the other 30,000 employees have provided, plain and simple.
[/FONT]
Chip
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Ahhhhhh..... more of that condescending pilot attitude. Been on furlough from crew scheduling for a week... I've missed it!

Chip, nobody defends what you and your colleagues do on this board more than I do. I understand the sacrifices the pilot group has made.... do not attempt to belittle and marginalize the sacrifices the rest of us have made. Nobody at USAirways has a monopoly on suffering. Ask MCO res. Ask TPA mtc. Walk through PIT airport and find me somebody with less than 15 years seniority. Yes, pilots have sacrificed. So have the rest of us. You know that.

As far as the pilot pension issue is concerned... keep some perspective. It is one more hurdle to clear. Lets get it done.

 

[757fixer]

A little info for you Chip.In round one the mechanics took a 36% hit.Now after round two I'd bet we're at 46% or more.Every employee on the property has paid a huge price,only surpassed by those who gave their carrers.

 

[pitguy]

The pilots are not fooling anyone here. I know they are hurt by what is happening. But in reality, odds are great nothing will be done for the pilot pensions and they will have to be reduced. Now as for the pilots walking off the job because it is no longer worth their while to work here resulting in the company shutting down. That will never happen. There is no way the pilot group will walk off the job knowing their pension will still be reduced and "now" they just gave up a job still paying six figures. Sorry, but it will not happen. Usually these situations are best dealt with over time. Time needed to heal the wounds and just getting used to the new scheme of things. If a pilot is still not happy with his compensation then the wise thing would be to hunt for another job while he/she is still working.