Pilot Pension Anger is Growing & Enormous

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

Is anyone else irritated that this is supposed to be an aviation bulletin board, but use of the word "c o c k p i t" is somehow taboo? Moderators, take censorship back to the dark ages, will ya? Rediculous.

------> MODERATOR'S RESPONSE:
Sir,
This is not the moderator's fault...there is an automatic word filter that sometimes does too good of a job filtering....your fine observation helped us to pinpoint and fix that one....cockpit...thanks for not jumping to conclusions.

 

[W:EXCH:INVOL]

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On 1/18/2003 9:41:26 AM MrAeroMan wrote:

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On 1/17/2003 800 PM chipmunn wrote:

What’s even more concerning is that the pilots are very distracted by these events and are not focusing on flying, which the FAA understands with their blanket policy to increase air carrier inspections during bankruptcy, but the pilot distraction is the worst I have seen in my career. Everybody is “steaming hot” and the only topic of conversation is the pension plan issue and Siegel’s memo to the pilots fueled the fire. My concern is if both pilot’s in a ****pit are distracted the chances of an accident dramatically increase and war more likely and US Airways cash position dwindling, what would an accident do to the company’s formal reorganization?

I believe Siegel needs to obtain legislative solution now or the airline could be liquidated. However, before it is liquidated according to Siegel he said "if the legislative relief fails, we will be forced to file a distress termination of the existing plan."


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[/blockquote]
I just flew CLT to ORD and back Friday and had I seen this post prior to departure I guarantee you I would have been on ATA instead of U. I purposely chose U over ATA. $550.00 vs/ $250.00. ORD was further away from my meeting place than MDW but I chose U because of the way I've been treated in the past and b/c of friends and family working at the airline so I decided to spend my money there.
Chip, I don't think I need to tell you what a dangerous and ignorant post you put on a PUBLIC website. Apparently you and I were in CLT at the same time. I'm just thankful I wasn't going to DCA with you in control of the aircraft and your stress level issues in there with you.
As for my flight the entire crew on both flights to and from ORD were exceptional. Pilots friendly, talkative, laughing with pax and crew and generally warm. I've seen stressed pilots before and let me tell you these guys weren't stressed like Chip says is out there. I still can't believe you posted that garbage on a public website.
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[/blockquote]
Chip: You must be so proud of yourself.

INVOL

 

[mwa]

Fact: Emotionally hot issues lead to distraction.
Fact: There are emotionally hot issues at U.
Therefore: Distraction exists at U.

 

[us10]

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On 1/18/2003 112 PM pitguy wrote:

I am not sure why any pilot would want to start a fight regarding their retirement now. The company has no choice. They have no money and hence have no options, but to end the pilot retirement as we know it. There is no one to fight since the company has no other options or choices it can make.


---The pilots need to "live to fight another day".


---Chip, If you do not feel well (or if you feel stressed) please do not fly the C-130's either. In time we will all get through this. I hope your other job offer works out for you. Best of luck.
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Pitguy,

The company has a 3.1 billion pension funding gap due over the next seven years.This funding gap covers all company sponsored plans including pilots,F/As,IAM and management.The pilots portion of the gap is 2.1 billion, all other plans combined make up the remaining 1 billion.

The company's budget over the next seven years allows for total expenditures of 2.1 billion for all plans.They are a billion short.The company said they can keep the F/A,IAM and management plan ( 1 billion over seven years ) but the pilot's plan must go.If and when the pilot's plan is terminated it is my understanding the company is relieved of any further financial obligation to it.The remaining 1.1 billion is now available for the pilot "follow-on" plan.

Dave had a choice, use the entire budgeted 2.1 billion to fund the pilot's plan and drop all others or distress terminate the pilot's plan.If the pilot's plan were kept alive (consuming the budgeted 2.1 billion) there would be nothing left to commit to the F/A, IAM management "follow-on" (replacement) plan.In my opinion the pilots are getting screwed big time.Dave, to his credit has stayed focused on getting us through this chapter 11 nightmare.He's had to make some very difficult choices and this one went against the pilots.
I feel those that are allowed to retain their DBRP should feel extremely fortunate.


There are those who think the "follow-on" plan the company has pledged to establish for the pilots will fix everything.It won't, the PBGC has made it clear they will not allow an ongoing company to in their words:"dump its pension liabilities on the insurance system and then attempt to provide its workers with substantially the same benefits (incombination with PBGC's guaranteed benefits) as if the plans had never terminated." .... PBGC makes it clear if they take over the pilot's plan the pilots must suffer.They expressly forbid a company from making their pensioners whole.

In my opinion the company did have an option and they opted to save your pension not mine!

 

[insp89]

us10,, I wonder if you could help me put a nasty rumour to rest. It was going around the hangar the other day that a retiring pilot has the option of taking a lump sum pension payoff of around 1 MILLION DOLLARS if he chooses to. Now this can't be true,, can it ???? BTW,, a 30 yr. mechanic retires on around $2,100 per month from the pension plan.

 

[sdavis29]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/18/2003 4:56:09 PM insp89 wrote:
[P]us10,, I wonder if you could help me put a nasty rumour to rest. It was going around the hangar the other day that a retiring pilot has the option of taking a lump sum pension payoff of around 1 MILLION DOLLARS if he chooses to. Now this can't be true,, can it ???? BTW,, a 30 yr. mechanic retires on around $2,100 per month from the pension plan. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]at least they get that....fleet/cust service,esp ones hired 84-85 are looking at around $250.00[BR][BR][BR][BR][/P]

 

[us10]

insp89,

The Piedmont pilots brought the lump sum option to the merger.Yes,the pilots have had the option since then. I know the formula to calculate the annuity payments but I have no idea how the lump payment in lieu of annuity is calculated.

In the modified restructuring agreement just agreed to we reduced our maximum accrual ( years of service x 1.8%) to 50%.So, the max annuity would be 50%X FAE.This would effect the lump as well.With the imminent termination of our plan however all of this meaningless.By the way, what is the IAM's yearly and maximum accrual?

 

[Biffeman]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/18/2003 4:56:09 PM insp89 wrote:
[P]us10,, I wonder if you could help me put a nasty rumour to rest. It was going around the hangar the other day that a retiring pilot has the option of taking a lump sum pension payoff of around 1 MILLION DOLLARS if he chooses to. Now this can't be true,, can it ???? BTW,, a 30 yr. mechanic retires on around $2,100 per month from the pension plan. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]I am not a pilot and I do not know the specifics but yes certain pilots get a million dollar lump sum payment upon retirement

 

[us10]

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On 1/18/2003 6:05:50 PM insp89 wrote:

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On 1/18/2003 5:32:24 PM us10 wrote:


insp89,

The Piedmont pilots brought the lump sum option to the merger.Yes,the pilots have had the option since then. I know the formula to calculate the annuity payments but I have no idea how the lump payment in lieu of annuity is calculated.

In the modified restructuring agreement just agreed to we reduced our maximum accrual ( years of service x 1.8%) to 50%.So, the max annuity would be 50%X FAE.This would effect the lump as well.With the imminent termination of our plan however all of this meaningless.By the way, what is the IAM's yearly and maximum accrual?

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[/blockquote]us10,, I'm about 12 years away from retirement. I'm ashamed to say I have'nt thought much about pensions until all this bankrupcy bull hit the fan..What I do know is that you take the number 70 and multipy it by the years of service that you have.

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insp89,

Thanks for the info. Your absolutely correct, this whole mess has brought many things into sharper focus!

 

[tadjr]

Anyone listen to Dave's message this week? Very interesting report. Also to anyone who doesnt think things here are passed on needs to defintely check out his message. This thread and the skybox issue are both addressed. USDaily option 4.

 

[insp89]

[blockquote]
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On 1/18/2003 5:32:24 PM us10 wrote:


insp89,

The Piedmont pilots brought the lump sum option to the merger.Yes,the pilots have had the option since then. I know the formula to calculate the annuity payments but I have no idea how the lump payment in lieu of annuity is calculated.

In the modified restructuring agreement just agreed to we reduced our maximum accrual ( years of service x 1.8%) to 50%.So, the max annuity would be 50%X FAE.This would effect the lump as well.With the imminent termination of our plan however all of this meaningless.By the way, what is the IAM's yearly and maximum accrual?

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[/blockquote]us10,, I'm about 12 years away from retirement. I'm ashamed to say I have'nt thought much about pensions until all this bankrupcy bull hit the fan..What I do know is that you take the number 70 and multipy it by the years of service that you have.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/18/2003 5:17:39 PM Biffeman wrote:
[P][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/18/2003 4:56:09 PM insp89 wrote: [BR][BR]us10,, I wonder if you could help me put a nasty rumour to rest. It was going around the hangar the other day that a retiring pilot has the option of taking a lump sum pension payoff of around 1 MILLION DOLLARS if he chooses to. Now this can't be true,, can it ???? BTW,, a 30 yr. mechanic retires on around $2,100 per month from the pension plan. ----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]I am not a pilot and I do not know the specifics but yes certain pilots get a million dollar lump sum payment upon retirement
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]Is that why you're jealous and hate pilots so much?

 

[WNjetdoc]

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On 1/18/2003 9:07:42 AM REACC1 wrote:

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On 1/18/2003 7:31:02 AM WNjetdoc wrote:

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I have a couple of things w/this post. For one, where do you get that WN rampers do less than you? I am employed with WN right now and was employed w/U in the past. I can tell you for sure that you do not do more than a WN ramper, believe me pal. You may do just as much, maybe.....Maybe you can give examples, if Im wrong then I stand corrected....Also you are totally incorrect about WN rampers, (or any employee group for that matter), getting a pension. We do not have a pension. We have a great 401k and profit sharing program, but no pension from the company. I understand you being pissed at U for whats going on but do not take it out on WN or their employees.
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Nice little 7% match on that 401k though.

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Actually its 7.3% to be exact, 100%. Thats why I said its great. My point was that its not a company pension.[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif']

 

[wings396]

The pilot group has permitted Chip to shoot his mouth off for months. He said it was best if the CWA & IAM took it in the shorts for the company. All was good to work for $13 an hour etc....etc..and so on. This hurt us every bit as much as the ALPA pension issue. We will be so beat up trying to put food on the table that we can't even think about a pension or any form of retirement. And for the idiot that says that anyone except his group is only worth $10, keep this in mind when it comes the quality of your ground handling etc. It is obvious that you have never had an irate psgr in your face or handled 70lb bags all day or been up in the deicing bucket for hours in freezing weather...if we are only worth $10, then you are only worth $25.

 

[wings396]

Thanks pitguy. I know this is the sediment of most of us that are left.