My view on Senate hearing on US Airways pension problem

[real world]

[blockquote]
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On 1/15/2003 4:31:38 PM chipmunn wrote:

In an interview with Pittsburgh TV Station KDKA Senator Arlen Specter said he "thinks he has a strong case to save the (defined benefit plan) and he thinks we will win." The senator continued it would likely come down to the wire like the Pittsburgh - Tennessee game.

Two more weeks to go...we'll see...

Chip
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[/blockquote]
Chip

He is a politician what did you expect him to say "that you guys do not have a chance in hell". He wants you vote in the next election.

 

[taylor01]

Gee...
wish we could have had a u.s. senator go
to bat for us when our pension was "gutted" 10 years ago.
Come on guys save our company!!

 

[pitguy]

Chip,

Yes the pilots have given plenty, but the fact remains it is not enough. We have come to far to stop now. You of all people can understand that it is not right to hold the rest of the employees and the company back. Repeating what I have heard from others "if you don't like it then quit". If the pilots want to hold the company hostage they need to consider their co-workers and not be selfish. The fact remains there are not allot of jobs out there and it is better to be working than on the unemployment line. Going from a high paying flying job to a Wal-Mart greeter may not wear well on some of you. There is no way the government is going to bail this mess out. You are just dreaming to believe it will happen and when the government says "no" then you have to cave in because the company does not have the cash to pay and Ch-7 will be eminent. Then my friend you can put the blue vest on and pass out smiley face stickers to the children.

-Remember if you ever hope to get that corporate job you must always make pro company statements.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/15/2003 711 PM pitguy wrote:
[P]Sounds like the government and the company will say "we did all we can do, sorry". It is a pipe dream to believe there will be a bail out coming for the pensions. But at least we will all have a job and some of us will just have to give a little more. No pain no gain.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]You don't get it. They have to do one of three things. [BR]1) liquidate the company, refund the pensions as much as possible. taxpayers pay the rest.[BR]2) liquidate the pension(s), let U fund new pensions a different way, taxpayers stuck with a huge bill to fund shortages in the present system when employees start to retire.[BR]3) Allow U management to "creatively restructure" the debt to repay it over a longer period, relieving taxpayers of the burden of insuring U's pensions.[BR][BR]I believe that management would prefer option #2, as it would relieve them of HUGE cash contributions, even if spread over 30 years.[BR][BR]U's competitors would prefer option #1. They are actively campaigning for it as we speak.[BR][BR]No matter which of these occurs, it will set a precedent which will be pursued by other airlines and industries. The only option which preserves liability for the funding with management is #3, and this is what Senator Spector is pushing for. On the face of it, it is the ONLY one of these options which makes sense.

 

[chipmunn]

Pitguy:

Pitguy said: Repeating what I have heard from others "if you don't like it then quit". Then my friend you can put the blue vest on and pass out smiley face stickers to the children.

Chip answers: Pitguy, if a legislative solution fails, many pilots may quit while others are saying "let them close the doors -- it's no longer worth it to work here." There are plenty of jobs available that pay $60,000 per year that a pilot can perform in this industry. There is no doubt without the retirement plan at the end of the line, the pilot sentiment will shift. Siegel needs to find a solution to the problem that is satisfactory to ALPA or the end could be near.

Chip

 

[chipmunn]

US pilots have provided enormous concessions that are unmatched in the history of the airline industry. Pilot pay and benefit cuts on average exceed $120,000 per pilot per year plus another $77 million per year in pension concessions. ALPA has agreed to annual cost reductions that total $643 million per year for the next 6 years, which now is up to an average of $138,000 per year per pilot (based on 4,700 pilots).

After 24 hours since the Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on the US pilot pension, the MEC and rank-and-file anger is increasing at the thought of the pilot pension plan being terminated.

For the first time I sense a sea change in pilot attitude and if the legislative solution fails, ALPA may call the companies bluff and see if management/RSA liquidates the airline over this issue. Pilots are tired of being complemented on their sacrifices and ALPA members are "enormously disappointed" in the current state of events.

From this observers perch, attitudes have changed and it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Chip

 

[pitguy]

Chip,

Would it not be better to look for another job while still employed? You must have some heart to think about everyone else also. Maybe some people do not want to see their careers just shut down. Please remember that future employers may be reluctant to hire someone that haphazardly help shut down their last employer. Times are tough and there are not 'tons' of jobs out there and the ones there are have 'tons' of applicants.

 

[chipmunn]

Pitguy:

I'm just telling you the sentiment of the pilot group so do not try and lobby me or "shoot the messenger". By the way, I already have a suitable job offer and my wife is urging me to take it.

Chip

 

[Biffeman]

The bank is closed we all gave enough, it is your pension, it is your problem, you will have to deal with it and none of us other employee groups are gonna give a penny to help your pension.

 

[autofixer]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/15/2003 9:53:23 PM Biffeman wrote:

The bank is closed we all gave enough, it is your pension, it is your problem, you will have to deal with it and none of us other employee groups are gonna give a penny to help your pension.
----------------
[/blockquote]Biffeman, It is your problem if the pilots shut it down!

 

[real world]

Chip,

The pilots do not have much choice as you have stated to the other union groups while contemplating ratification of their further cost reductions. You were very adimint that they ratify the agreement to retain employment for the rest of us, however now al of sudden if teh pilots think it is too much it is time to close the doors!!!! Who put the pilots in charge of this company. The company will do what it has to survive including rejecting the pilot pension plan through the courts and implementing a defined contribution plan and for those pilots that don't like it, to bad quit. There are many more pilots out there that want jobs. I am sorry you guys have to give so much but then again you have all had a great ride up to this point and it is time to pay the piper.

 

[autofixer]

I voted no the first time and I took an unpaid leave on January 1st. I did not, nor do I now, trust ALPA or U management. I am working on my "real" future, minus U and my pension. I potentially can make at least double or three times what I made at U and I am the boss(That is worth a 50% pay cut!!!). If I mess up my company, it is my fault and no one elses--not some incompetent and untrustworthy airline management. I suspect that hundreds of pilots will soon follow my lead if the pension goes away (and it will); it IS the ONLY option. An added benifit--no whinning airline employees. If my employees don't like something, they are free to leave!

 

[Biffeman]

They can't shut it down, they can't strike, they have more to lose then any other group, and if the PBGC terminates their pension, there is nothing that the pilots can do. Now they will realize what everyone else has had to deal with. Ask the Fleet and Customer Service people how it was since US froze their pension in 1992. Fleet just got a pension and Customer Service still does not have one. The pilots won't do a thing, funny how some pilots on here who were telling us all how to vote don't like it now that their golden pensions are about to vanish.

 

[chipmunn]

Pitguy:

Just one more point...after talking with many colleagues throughout the day, there are many pilots who believe the pilots have already given more than enough to save the company.

Only the pilots and MSP employees do not have the option to work overtime to increase gross earnings to offset the pay loss.

There are many pilots who believe ALPA has augmented other employee concessions and if the other employee groups want this airline to continue to operate, some of my colleagues believe it's time for the other employee groups to "pony up" more.

Chip

 

[savyinvestor]

I do have a grip no need to yell. It case you missed it what U is asking for is illegal, it encourages other companies to underfund and the PBGC is NOT funded by taxes, but by fees collected from companies that offer pension plans. That is why this crazy idea threatens 44,000,000 American's pensions. Now, does that seem like a good deal to those 44,000,000? Do I want U to go belly up? No, but the pension problem is yours and U and ALPA are trying to make it mine. Thats where I draw the line.