savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/25/2003 12:37:23 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
[BLOCKQUOTE]
----------------
On 1/25/2003 11
22 AM savyinvestor wrote:
Calm down Oldie. I know the truth hurts. For whats its worth I was in the Insurance Industry responsible for insuring high profile individuals: Presidents, athletes, TV & Movie personalities. This developed large premiums and large commissions for yours truly. By the way, I did this without endangering anyone elses' job. I sleep well at night do you? Savy----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
I sleep great. Except when I have to do the 6:05 departures and safely deliver my delicate cargo to it's intended destination. And now I understand your self esteem problem. I can't remember, in all my discussions with children (or anyone else for that matter), ever hearing anybody say that they wanted to grow up to be an insurance salesman. Sorry that you feel so unfulfilled that you have to attempt to end the livelihoods of 30,000 people with your misinformed drivel.
----------------
[/blockquote]
There you go again with your personal attacks. Sleep well Oldie the clock is ticking. By the way, I don't think your sleeping as well as you let on, tick,tock,tick tock,tick,tock,.............well, you know what I mean. Savy
----------------
On 1/25/2003 12:37:23 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
[BLOCKQUOTE]
----------------
On 1/25/2003 11
22 AM savyinvestor wrote: Calm down Oldie. I know the truth hurts. For whats its worth I was in the Insurance Industry responsible for insuring high profile individuals: Presidents, athletes, TV & Movie personalities. This developed large premiums and large commissions for yours truly. By the way, I did this without endangering anyone elses' job. I sleep well at night do you? Savy----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
I sleep great. Except when I have to do the 6:05 departures and safely deliver my delicate cargo to it's intended destination. And now I understand your self esteem problem. I can't remember, in all my discussions with children (or anyone else for that matter), ever hearing anybody say that they wanted to grow up to be an insurance salesman. Sorry that you feel so unfulfilled that you have to attempt to end the livelihoods of 30,000 people with your misinformed drivel.
----------------
[/blockquote]
There you go again with your personal attacks. Sleep well Oldie the clock is ticking. By the way, I don't think your sleeping as well as you let on, tick,tock,tick tock,tick,tock,.............well, you know what I mean. Savy
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/25/2003 1:42:08 PM Atlantic wrote:
Good post Oldie.
Savy, tick tock youself back to what I am sure is a very boring job come Monday.
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[/blockquote]
You seem irritable too Atlantic. I wonder why? Perhaps the noise is getting louder as the time gets shorter. Not to worry though I'm sure you'll get what you truly deserve.
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On 1/25/2003 1:42:08 PM Atlantic wrote:
Good post Oldie.
Savy, tick tock youself back to what I am sure is a very boring job come Monday.
----------------
[/blockquote]
You seem irritable too Atlantic. I wonder why? Perhaps the noise is getting louder as the time gets shorter. Not to worry though I'm sure you'll get what you truly deserve.
Nope Savy,
Only noise I hear is Green Day coming from up stairs. And I like em so I guess it't not really noise to me.
I don't want what I deserve. Never had a job that paid what I deserve. I've always did the extra thing.
To get paid what I've earned, different story.
Enjoy yourself in other people's hard times.
Only noise I hear is Green Day coming from up stairs. And I like em so I guess it't not really noise to me.
I don't want what I deserve. Never had a job that paid what I deserve. I've always did the extra thing.
To get paid what I've earned, different story.
Enjoy yourself in other people's hard times.
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/25/2003 3:00:55 PM Atlantic wrote:
Nope Savy,
Only noise I hear is Green Day coming from up stairs. And I like em so I guess it't not really noise to me.
I don't want what I deserve. Never had a job that paid what I deserve. I've always did the extra thing.
To get paid what I've earned, different story.
Enjoy yourself in other people's hard times.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I find no enjoyment in anyone's hard times. I do have problems with greed at the expense of others. Now you and your buddies can go ahead and start the personal attacks all over again. After that you can go to the ALPA site and read about "Whats A Pilot Worth" so you can convince yourself that your better than me and all your fellow employees. Keep reading it over and over and over and over. Guess what? I'll still take one IAM, CWA, AFA person on my team versus 100 of you. Sad , but true. Savy
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On 1/25/2003 3:00:55 PM Atlantic wrote:
Nope Savy,
Only noise I hear is Green Day coming from up stairs. And I like em so I guess it't not really noise to me.
I don't want what I deserve. Never had a job that paid what I deserve. I've always did the extra thing.
To get paid what I've earned, different story.
Enjoy yourself in other people's hard times.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I find no enjoyment in anyone's hard times. I do have problems with greed at the expense of others. Now you and your buddies can go ahead and start the personal attacks all over again. After that you can go to the ALPA site and read about "Whats A Pilot Worth" so you can convince yourself that your better than me and all your fellow employees. Keep reading it over and over and over and over. Guess what? I'll still take one IAM, CWA, AFA person on my team versus 100 of you. Sad , but true. Savy
There is an old story, or whatever you want to call it, that a large number of people were invited into a room. Once inside, each was required to lay all of their problems in a neat pile on a table. Then everyone was required to walk around the table and select the "pile of problems" they would like to leave the room with. As the story goes, everyone chose to leave with the "pile" they themselves had laid down.
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
Your kidding right? Let's take a vote. All in favor of pilots and there pension and how they are trying to get it resolved please respond in a professional manner. I don't want Oldie to think everyone is against him so think carefully before you respond. Thanks for your participation. Savy
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
Bitter,bitter, bitter. I really feel sorry for you. But I feel worse for those that have to deal with you everyday.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
Bob,[BR]Just for your info, the PATCO strike was an illegal strike. That's what allowed President Reagan to do what he did. ALPA and everyone else, even PATCO, knew this. If ALPA strikes over this, all it would take is 1/4 to 1/2 of the pilots to walk to finish this company. That's why I feel an obligation to speak clearly, loudly and correctly in defense of the pilots and their position. The company may be forced to liquidate all the employees retirement plans, not just the pilot's, if the numbers bear out true concerning shifting numbers for pension funding. Not only that, but the government will hold U's assets in limbo for eons while they decide who pays for what where the pensions are concerned. Even secured and post petition creditors have got to be concerned about this. I hope you're learning something. You may get to use it soon at AMR.
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
I just got home off of a trip and honestly, I have never seen so many pilots ready to walk out of this place regardless of the cost. After my chat this morning with an MEC member, I'm ready to walk myself.
Fire Away...
A320 Driver
Fire Away...
A320 Driver
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/25/2003 12:31:06 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
Bob O,
You really should get back to worrying about AMR, as they appear to be next in line at the "chapter 11 show". Pilots can fend for themselves. And, you know what? I and most of my compatriots don't give a rat's patoot what happens to anybody else's retirement. But we'll fight tooth, nail, lawyer, and congressman anybody that tries to take ours. This situation may well accelerate rapidly right to chapter 7. If that's the case, so be it. THe pilot group has led the effort to save this place, and the company knows it.
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[/blockquote]
Why worry? What will it change?
Many feel that your greed has helped get the place into the trouble its in to start with. Your arrogance helps reinforce these feelings.I have not heard one news release complaining about mechanics wages. You had no reservations asking mechanics to give up what they got even though it would put them below thier peers. Now that you are getting hit you are angry. The pilots from Continental felt the same way as you about thier coworkers. It turned out that they couldnt fend for themselves, they struck and they lost after helping the company beat all the other workers. ALPA has a long history of crossing picket lines, thier support of Reagan during PATCO was disgraceful. If you are an example of todays ALPA it seems that not much has changed. Good luck Superman, I'm sure you guys can win all by yourselves.
----------------
On 1/25/2003 12:31:06 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
Bob O,
You really should get back to worrying about AMR, as they appear to be next in line at the "chapter 11 show". Pilots can fend for themselves. And, you know what? I and most of my compatriots don't give a rat's patoot what happens to anybody else's retirement. But we'll fight tooth, nail, lawyer, and congressman anybody that tries to take ours. This situation may well accelerate rapidly right to chapter 7. If that's the case, so be it. THe pilot group has led the effort to save this place, and the company knows it.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Why worry? What will it change?
Many feel that your greed has helped get the place into the trouble its in to start with. Your arrogance helps reinforce these feelings.I have not heard one news release complaining about mechanics wages. You had no reservations asking mechanics to give up what they got even though it would put them below thier peers. Now that you are getting hit you are angry. The pilots from Continental felt the same way as you about thier coworkers. It turned out that they couldnt fend for themselves, they struck and they lost after helping the company beat all the other workers. ALPA has a long history of crossing picket lines, thier support of Reagan during PATCO was disgraceful. If you are an example of todays ALPA it seems that not much has changed. Good luck Superman, I'm sure you guys can win all by yourselves.
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
A320 you are entitled to your opinion. You do so in a way that doesn't pi__ everyone off. You don't attack or try to brow beat others into submission and above all else you don't post in a condescending manner. There will be no firing at you from me. Good luck! Savy
FrugalFlyer
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 254
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/24/2003 8
18 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
Hate to burst your bubble, but military pilots ALREADY make MORE than most commercial pilots (way more than commuter pilots), at least as much as what most major airlines are paying their First Officers. Part of the reason airlines pay is potentially higher is that the airlines are trying to attract the military flyers to work for them. It would be pretty hard to do that without offering more. I bet you didn't know that a military pilot, with the flight pay, base pay, housing allowance and tax savings they get (only the base pay, about 2/3rds of total pay, is taxable, plus they can get a 20 year retirement) can make about 6 figures a year. You didn't know that, did you? I've got a good friend that just went back on active duty and will make MORE than the first officers at U that didn't get furloughed after all the givebacks, even the ones that have been here for 18+ years. Oh, and by the way, military pilots are getting a 4% raise this year. U pilots took a 35% cut last year, which may be followed by a loss of some pension benefits.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Oldie -
You forgot to mention that military pilots also don't have the streneous 70-80 hr per month work schedule, and you forgot to mention all the exotic places military pilots get to go to (I hear Afghanistan has a blastin' night life). Also, the bases these pilots and their families are housed at are so luxurious. And although those US military pilots based outside the USA have to deal with sometimes not so friendly anti-USA locals, it is nothing compared to what civilian pilots must endure at the either an airports security checkpoints or the local Starbucks. Yeah, the military even had to turn down applicants recently because it is so lucrative.
Please don't even attempt to be portray military pilots as having it good and the civilian pilot as a 'woe-is-me' individual.
----------------
On 1/24/2003 8
18 PM oldiebutgoody wrote: Hate to burst your bubble, but military pilots ALREADY make MORE than most commercial pilots (way more than commuter pilots), at least as much as what most major airlines are paying their First Officers. Part of the reason airlines pay is potentially higher is that the airlines are trying to attract the military flyers to work for them. It would be pretty hard to do that without offering more. I bet you didn't know that a military pilot, with the flight pay, base pay, housing allowance and tax savings they get (only the base pay, about 2/3rds of total pay, is taxable, plus they can get a 20 year retirement) can make about 6 figures a year. You didn't know that, did you? I've got a good friend that just went back on active duty and will make MORE than the first officers at U that didn't get furloughed after all the givebacks, even the ones that have been here for 18+ years. Oh, and by the way, military pilots are getting a 4% raise this year. U pilots took a 35% cut last year, which may be followed by a loss of some pension benefits.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Oldie -
You forgot to mention that military pilots also don't have the streneous 70-80 hr per month work schedule, and you forgot to mention all the exotic places military pilots get to go to (I hear Afghanistan has a blastin' night life). Also, the bases these pilots and their families are housed at are so luxurious. And although those US military pilots based outside the USA have to deal with sometimes not so friendly anti-USA locals, it is nothing compared to what civilian pilots must endure at the either an airports security checkpoints or the local Starbucks. Yeah, the military even had to turn down applicants recently because it is so lucrative.
Please don't even attempt to be portray military pilots as having it good and the civilian pilot as a 'woe-is-me' individual.
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
The thread that wouldn't die...Part 6
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/25/2003 9:25:42 PM FrugalFlyer wrote: [BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/24/2003 818 PM oldiebutgoody wrote: [BR]Hate to burst your bubble, but military pilots ALREADY make MORE than most commercial pilots (way more than commuter pilots), at least as much as what most major airlines are paying their First Officers. Part of the reason airlines pay is potentially higher is that the airlines are trying to attract the military flyers to work for them. It would be pretty hard to do that without offering more. I bet you didn't know that a military pilot, with the flight pay, base pay, housing allowance and tax savings they get (only the base pay, about 2/3rds of total pay, is taxable, plus they can get a 20 year retirement) can make about 6 figures a year. You didn't know that, did you? I've got a good friend that just went back on active duty and will make MORE than the first officers at U that didn't get furloughed after all the givebacks, even the ones that have been here for 18+ years. Oh, and by the way, military pilots are getting a 4% raise this year. U pilots took a 35% cut last year, which may be followed by a loss of some pension benefits.[BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Hey Oldie - [BR]You forgot to mention that military pilots also don't have the streneous 70-80 hr per month work schedule, and you forgot to mention all the exotic places military pilots get to go to (I hear Afghanistan has a blastin' night life). Also, the bases these pilots and their families are housed at are so luxurious. And although those US military pilots based outside the USA have to deal with sometimes not so friendly anti-USA locals, it is nothing compared to what civilian pilots must endure at the either an airports security checkpoints or the local Starbucks. Yeah, the military even had to turn down applicants recently because it is so lucrative.[BR][BR]Please don't even attempt to be portray military pilots as having it good and the civilian pilot as a 'woe-is-me' individual.[BR][BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Hey frugal, [BR]Done it, been there, and I'd do it again in a minute. It's not just a job, it's an adventure. And it ain't a raw deal. Airline pilots don't have NEAR the rest requirements that active duty does (military, Air Force at least, don't have to be "gear up" 9 +15 hours after they landed last night). I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about because I've done both. Have you? Doubt it. Also, that 85 hour month means working at least 15 days nowadays. How many hours is that? 15x24=360 and all pilots get paid is for 85. Away from home, missing birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, etc. Pilot's (and F/As) are the best deal airlines have. They only get paid when the wheels are moving. No other groups can claim the same thing. I'm not the one "portraying" anybody as anything. I'm telling it the way it is. Most of today's airline pilots "paid their dues" in the military, flying the missions and training the military pilots of today. I know that because I've done it, and so have MANY of my compatriots. Now, tell me how much more YOU know about military pilots than I do after my 22 + years of military service, followed by an airline career.
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/25/2003 9:25:42 PM FrugalFlyer wrote: [BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/24/2003 8
18 PM oldiebutgoody wrote: [BR]Hate to burst your bubble, but military pilots ALREADY make MORE than most commercial pilots (way more than commuter pilots), at least as much as what most major airlines are paying their First Officers. Part of the reason airlines pay is potentially higher is that the airlines are trying to attract the military flyers to work for them. It would be pretty hard to do that without offering more. I bet you didn't know that a military pilot, with the flight pay, base pay, housing allowance and tax savings they get (only the base pay, about 2/3rds of total pay, is taxable, plus they can get a 20 year retirement) can make about 6 figures a year. You didn't know that, did you? I've got a good friend that just went back on active duty and will make MORE than the first officers at U that didn't get furloughed after all the givebacks, even the ones that have been here for 18+ years. Oh, and by the way, military pilots are getting a 4% raise this year. U pilots took a 35% cut last year, which may be followed by a loss of some pension benefits.[BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Hey Oldie - [BR]You forgot to mention that military pilots also don't have the streneous 70-80 hr per month work schedule, and you forgot to mention all the exotic places military pilots get to go to (I hear Afghanistan has a blastin' night life). Also, the bases these pilots and their families are housed at are so luxurious. And although those US military pilots based outside the USA have to deal with sometimes not so friendly anti-USA locals, it is nothing compared to what civilian pilots must endure at the either an airports security checkpoints or the local Starbucks. Yeah, the military even had to turn down applicants recently because it is so lucrative.[BR][BR]Please don't even attempt to be portray military pilots as having it good and the civilian pilot as a 'woe-is-me' individual.[BR][BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Hey frugal, [BR]Done it, been there, and I'd do it again in a minute. It's not just a job, it's an adventure. And it ain't a raw deal. Airline pilots don't have NEAR the rest requirements that active duty does (military, Air Force at least, don't have to be "gear up" 9 +15 hours after they landed last night). I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about because I've done both. Have you? Doubt it. Also, that 85 hour month means working at least 15 days nowadays. How many hours is that? 15x24=360 and all pilots get paid is for 85. Away from home, missing birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, etc. Pilot's (and F/As) are the best deal airlines have. They only get paid when the wheels are moving. No other groups can claim the same thing. I'm not the one "portraying" anybody as anything. I'm telling it the way it is. Most of today's airline pilots "paid their dues" in the military, flying the missions and training the military pilots of today. I know that because I've done it, and so have MANY of my compatriots. Now, tell me how much more YOU know about military pilots than I do after my 22 + years of military service, followed by an airline career.
