[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/20/2003 11:44:56 AM autofixer wrote:
[P]Wings, You don't have a clue what I or any pilot has ever done! We did not allow Chip to shoot off his mouth; Chip has a god given right to do that! I say shut it down! Maybe you and the rest of these airline cry babies can go and find a real job!!!!! [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P][EM][FONT face="Courier New"]my my how the tables have turned....[/FONT][/EM][img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif']
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/20/2003 11:44:56 AM autofixer wrote:
[P]Wings, You don't have a clue what I or any pilot has ever done! We did not allow Chip to shoot off his mouth; Chip has a god given right to do that! I say shut it down! Maybe you and the rest of these airline cry babies can go and find a real job!!!!! [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P][EM][FONT face="Courier New"]my my how the tables have turned....[/FONT][/EM][img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif']
autofixer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,804
- 241
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/20/2003 3
56 PM pitguy wrote:
You are right DELLDUDE things have gone 180 degrees around here and it is not wearing well on some.
Maybe they can go and take a can in the airport and wear a sandwich board sign around them that says:
1- Mercedes payment due.
2- Help with alimony for my three ex wives.
3- Wife ran up the Sax 5th Avenue charge.
4- My Florida condo payment due.
5- One of my brokers have a hot tip.
6- Redecorating my 5,000 square foot house.
7- I spent all my six figure salary for years and now I need to retire.
8- My kids private school tuition is due.
9- My wife needs more jewelry.
10- I deserve it.
Hopefully this will help with the some funding issues.
--Do not take this post seriously. It is just meant to lighten things up here.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Personally, I have a 1992 S-10 and a 1994 1/2 ton pick-up. I would never buy a foriegn car...unlike many of my union "brothers". My wife would never shop at whatever that place is, as she shops at stores with concrete floors. Your sterotypes are incorrect and tiresome. It is obvious you have low self-esteem to make such sterotypical statements.
----------------
On 1/20/2003 3
56 PM pitguy wrote: You are right DELLDUDE things have gone 180 degrees around here and it is not wearing well on some.
Maybe they can go and take a can in the airport and wear a sandwich board sign around them that says:
1- Mercedes payment due.
2- Help with alimony for my three ex wives.
3- Wife ran up the Sax 5th Avenue charge.
4- My Florida condo payment due.
5- One of my brokers have a hot tip.
6- Redecorating my 5,000 square foot house.
7- I spent all my six figure salary for years and now I need to retire.
8- My kids private school tuition is due.
9- My wife needs more jewelry.
10- I deserve it.
Hopefully this will help with the some funding issues.
--Do not take this post seriously. It is just meant to lighten things up here.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Personally, I have a 1992 S-10 and a 1994 1/2 ton pick-up. I would never buy a foriegn car...unlike many of my union "brothers". My wife would never shop at whatever that place is, as she shops at stores with concrete floors. Your sterotypes are incorrect and tiresome. It is obvious you have low self-esteem to make such sterotypical statements.
OP
chipmunn
Guest
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #111
Slam&Click said: "As a dedicated, professional airman, I would have expected that any aforementioned safety concerns you've expressed would have been addressed (by you) to the proper people, at the proper levels, and within the proper channels rather than here in a very public domain. Rest assured that since you've claimed that everything you've posted is nothing but the truth, I have forwarded your posts of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally."
US Airways vice president of flight operations Captain Ed Bular wrote to the pilots on January 17: Yesterday, Dave Siegel sent you a memo concerning the pension issue, an issue of paramount importance to all of us pilots. It's imperative now, though, that we not lose our focus on operational safety. With all of the anxiety and stress this restructuring has created, it's more important than ever to stay focused, fly smart and be confident."
Chip comments: My post about pilot stress was to focus on the problem because before a problem can be solved it must be identified. This is one of the ways to prevent an accident and creates walls to failure. Apparently, Captain Bular agrees with my point and identified the problem after my initial post on this board. Slam&Click, are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally?
Chip
US Airways vice president of flight operations Captain Ed Bular wrote to the pilots on January 17: Yesterday, Dave Siegel sent you a memo concerning the pension issue, an issue of paramount importance to all of us pilots. It's imperative now, though, that we not lose our focus on operational safety. With all of the anxiety and stress this restructuring has created, it's more important than ever to stay focused, fly smart and be confident."
Chip comments: My post about pilot stress was to focus on the problem because before a problem can be solved it must be identified. This is one of the ways to prevent an accident and creates walls to failure. Apparently, Captain Bular agrees with my point and identified the problem after my initial post on this board. Slam&Click, are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally?
Chip
OP
chipmunn
Guest
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #112
Andy S. asked: You say that the PBGC will not distress terminate the pilot pension plan. That is not my take on their statements to date. If the pension is underfunded and they won't approve US's refunding plan, what exactly do they want US to do?
Chip answers: The PBGC could "distress terminate" the plan, but up to this point has not. Furthermore, there are indications the PBGC wants the airline to do this so the government does not have to do the work. However, there are now reports the company may not be able to terminate the plan by March 31, which will violate the bankruptcy terms. The PBGC wants the pilot group and company to voluntarily terminate the plan, but ALPA has said "no way".
Another problem is surfacing in that the rank-and-file members want to know why the other seven defined benefit plans will not be touched, but only the pilots. Another sticking point is that the company cannot help retired pilots with a defined contribution, who would then go to PBGC minimums and be forced to return their lump sum to the government.
Lindy asked: I offered the following on another thread..Is not the one million dollar lump sum payment the main sticking point????
Chip answers: Lindy, I have been told the lump sum distribution is not the issue and will not solve the problem. In fact, the last ALPA agreement terminated the lump on all future accruals.
Chip
Chip answers: The PBGC could "distress terminate" the plan, but up to this point has not. Furthermore, there are indications the PBGC wants the airline to do this so the government does not have to do the work. However, there are now reports the company may not be able to terminate the plan by March 31, which will violate the bankruptcy terms. The PBGC wants the pilot group and company to voluntarily terminate the plan, but ALPA has said "no way".
Another problem is surfacing in that the rank-and-file members want to know why the other seven defined benefit plans will not be touched, but only the pilots. Another sticking point is that the company cannot help retired pilots with a defined contribution, who would then go to PBGC minimums and be forced to return their lump sum to the government.
Lindy asked: I offered the following on another thread..Is not the one million dollar lump sum payment the main sticking point????
Chip answers: Lindy, I have been told the lump sum distribution is not the issue and will not solve the problem. In fact, the last ALPA agreement terminated the lump on all future accruals.
Chip
W:EXCH:INVOL
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 171
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 12
18 AM chipmunn wrote:
Slam&Click said: "As a dedicated, professional airman, I would have expected that any aforementioned safety concerns you've expressed would have been addressed (by you) to the proper people, at the proper levels, and within the proper channels rather than here in a very public domain. Rest assured that since you've claimed that everything you've posted is nothing but the truth, I have forwarded your posts of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally."
US Airways vice president of flight operations Captain Ed Bular wrote to the pilots on January 17: Yesterday, Dave Siegel sent you a memo concerning the pension issue, an issue of paramount importance to all of us pilots. It's imperative now, though, that we not lose our focus on operational safety. With all of the anxiety and stress this restructuring has created, it's more important than ever to stay focused, fly smart and be confident."
Chip comments: My post about pilot stress was to focus on the problem because before a problem can be solved it must be identified. This is one of the ways to prevent an accident and creates walls to failure. Apparently, Captain Bular agrees with my point and identified the problem after my initial post on this board. Slam&Click, are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally?
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
If Capt Bular already sent a letter to all the pilots, what was the point of posting the safety concerns here, in a PUBLIC forum where posters and readers (PAX INCLUDED) would GET EXCITED over the issue, which really boils down to ALPA PENSIONS.
Ohhhhhhh...I see now. Nevermind.
INVOL
----------------
On 1/21/2003 12
18 AM chipmunn wrote: Slam&Click said: "As a dedicated, professional airman, I would have expected that any aforementioned safety concerns you've expressed would have been addressed (by you) to the proper people, at the proper levels, and within the proper channels rather than here in a very public domain. Rest assured that since you've claimed that everything you've posted is nothing but the truth, I have forwarded your posts of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally."
US Airways vice president of flight operations Captain Ed Bular wrote to the pilots on January 17: Yesterday, Dave Siegel sent you a memo concerning the pension issue, an issue of paramount importance to all of us pilots. It's imperative now, though, that we not lose our focus on operational safety. With all of the anxiety and stress this restructuring has created, it's more important than ever to stay focused, fly smart and be confident."
Chip comments: My post about pilot stress was to focus on the problem because before a problem can be solved it must be identified. This is one of the ways to prevent an accident and creates walls to failure. Apparently, Captain Bular agrees with my point and identified the problem after my initial post on this board. Slam&Click, are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally?
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
If Capt Bular already sent a letter to all the pilots, what was the point of posting the safety concerns here, in a PUBLIC forum where posters and readers (PAX INCLUDED) would GET EXCITED over the issue, which really boils down to ALPA PENSIONS.
Ohhhhhhh...I see now. Nevermind.
INVOL
Slam&Click
Member
- Aug 24, 2002
- 90
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 10
48 AM chipmunn wrote:
Slam&Click, you never answered my question. are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally, too?
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Chip-Unlike you, I don't live and breathe this aviation board and, unlike you, I don't need to have constant attention, so therefore: when I post it is with merit and valid, ethical intentions.
You've now decided to use an INTERNAL company memo and make it a PUBLIC document to somehow justify your unwarranted, UNPROFESSIONAL, PUBLIC declarations of unsafe pilots at US. You're backpeddling, I know it, you know it and so does every other person that can read truth and see facts.
I've taken my concerns to the parties that I believed needed to be notified. I don't answer to you, Chip.
----------------
On 1/21/2003 10
48 AM chipmunn wrote: Slam&Click, you never answered my question. are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally, too?
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Chip-Unlike you, I don't live and breathe this aviation board and, unlike you, I don't need to have constant attention, so therefore: when I post it is with merit and valid, ethical intentions.
You've now decided to use an INTERNAL company memo and make it a PUBLIC document to somehow justify your unwarranted, UNPROFESSIONAL, PUBLIC declarations of unsafe pilots at US. You're backpeddling, I know it, you know it and so does every other person that can read truth and see facts.
I've taken my concerns to the parties that I believed needed to be notified. I don't answer to you, Chip.
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 10
33 AM Slam&Click wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 1048 AM chipmunn wrote:
Slam&Click, you never answered my question. are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally, too?
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Chip-Unlike you, I don't live and breathe this aviation board and, unlike you, I don't need to have constant attention, so therefore: when I post it is with merit and valid, ethical intentions.
You've now decided to use an INTERNAL company memo and make it a PUBLIC document to somehow justify your unwarranted, UNPROFESSIONAL, PUBLIC declarations of unsafe pilots at US. You're backpeddling, I know it, you know it and so does every other person that can read truth and see facts.
I've taken my concerns to the parties that I believed needed to be notified. I don't answer to you, Chip.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Slam, I can only say after reading your posts that you are very professional and that I would fly with you anywhere. Savy
----------------
On 1/21/2003 10
33 AM Slam&Click wrote: [blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 10
48 AM chipmunn wrote: Slam&Click, you never answered my question. are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally, too?
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Chip-Unlike you, I don't live and breathe this aviation board and, unlike you, I don't need to have constant attention, so therefore: when I post it is with merit and valid, ethical intentions.
You've now decided to use an INTERNAL company memo and make it a PUBLIC document to somehow justify your unwarranted, UNPROFESSIONAL, PUBLIC declarations of unsafe pilots at US. You're backpeddling, I know it, you know it and so does every other person that can read truth and see facts.
I've taken my concerns to the parties that I believed needed to be notified. I don't answer to you, Chip.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Slam, I can only say after reading your posts that you are very professional and that I would fly with you anywhere. Savy
OP
chipmunn
Guest
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #116
W:EXCH:INVOL asked: If Capt Bular already sent a letter to all the pilots, what was the point of posting the safety concerns here, in a PUBLIC forum where posters and readers (PAX INCLUDED) would GET EXCITED over the issue, which really boils down to ALPA PENSIONS.
Chip comments: W:EXCH:INVOL, Captain Bular wrote his letter on January 17 and it was recieved by the pilot group on January 20, four days after I made my post. The point is the Company saw the same problem that I did and publicly commented on the issue because I believe pilot stress and distraction has never been higher.
Slam&Click, you never answered my question. Are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally, too?
Chip
Chip comments: W:EXCH:INVOL, Captain Bular wrote his letter on January 17 and it was recieved by the pilot group on January 20, four days after I made my post. The point is the Company saw the same problem that I did and publicly commented on the issue because I believe pilot stress and distraction has never been higher.
Slam&Click, you never answered my question. Are you going to forward Captain Bular's letter of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally, too?
Chip
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 10
12 AM chipmunn wrote:
Another problem is surfacing in that the rank-and-file members want to know why the other seven defined benefit plans will not be touched, but only the pilots. Another sticking point is that the company cannot help retired pilots with a defined contribution, who would then go to PBGC minimums and be forced to return their lump sum to the government.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Chip-
You say that retirees will "be forced to return their lump sum to the government." Can you give me a resource to verify that? Is this true? Will PBGC have to 'bill' the retirees? Is a financial third party involved that buys annuites with the lump sum payments?
Thanks and good luck.
----------------
On 1/21/2003 10
12 AM chipmunn wrote: Another problem is surfacing in that the rank-and-file members want to know why the other seven defined benefit plans will not be touched, but only the pilots. Another sticking point is that the company cannot help retired pilots with a defined contribution, who would then go to PBGC minimums and be forced to return their lump sum to the government.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Chip-
You say that retirees will "be forced to return their lump sum to the government." Can you give me a resource to verify that? Is this true? Will PBGC have to 'bill' the retirees? Is a financial third party involved that buys annuites with the lump sum payments?
Thanks and good luck.
Chip----If a retired pilot did not take the lump sum and the company terminates the plan, is the retired pilot stuck with the maximum 28,000.00 in the future? It is my understanding the company wants to do the retirement a different way but it would be made whole again when they were done. Would a pilot that retired say four years ago be made whole again too or just the pilots that are working now?
OP
chipmunn
Guest
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #120
If the pension plan is terminated, the PBGC can take the lump sum distribution and the source is Karen Browne-Fleck, ALPA's Benefit Specialist. The funds would have to be returned to the PBGC, although I'm not sure of the prorocal.
Will the PBGC do this? I do not know, but it's legal.
Retiree pensions will be altered if the plan is terminated regardless if it's an annuity or lump sum distribution; however, other employee group retirees and current employees, for seven different pension plans, would be unaffected (except plans cancelled by the court).
Chip
Will the PBGC do this? I do not know, but it's legal.
Retiree pensions will be altered if the plan is terminated regardless if it's an annuity or lump sum distribution; however, other employee group retirees and current employees, for seven different pension plans, would be unaffected (except plans cancelled by the court).
Chip
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