IAM Fleet Service topic 11/6-

[Tally yo]

You have not confirmed anything LOL

 

[P. REZ]

Jester, in regard to the angry folks in LAS, the information on bumping is in the contract. If these folks had read their contract there would have been less hystrionics in the break room that day. One cannot simply state that they want to transfer to PHX and bump out the junior guy. That's not very fair to the most junior person in PHX who has more junior people under him on the global seniority list.

The process is on page 47 of the contract.Bumping does not occur until ALL positions are filled.

The contract language doesn't help but the openings do not have to be filled for agents to bump by juniority. If you have been privy to see the packet you will see that multiple options are available. The PHX employees that are being affected have been told to bid open positions just in case they were bumped. Thus, openings do not have to be filled before bumping.

P. Rez

 

[Harry Callahan]

Jester:
How about reading your contract so you know what you speak of

 

[28L_or_10R?]

The contract language doesn't help but the openings do not have to be filled for agents to bump by juniority. If you have been privy to see the packet you will see that multiple options are available. The PHX employees that are being affected have been told to bid open positions just in case they were bumped. Thus, openings do not have to be filled before bumping.

P. Rez

You really need to closely read that subparagraph (1) on the top of page 47. It leaves little room for interpretation. The company and the union need to get together and get on the same page or there will be some serious grievances. If I was a PHX agent bumped and found someone under me in the system was not bumped, I would grieve this and would encourage anyone in the same situation to grieve this, as well.

 

[P. REZ]

You really need to closely read that subparagraph (1) on the top of page 47. It leaves little room for interpretation. The company and the union need to get together and get on the same page or there will be some serious grievances. If I was a PHX agent bumped and found someone under me in the system was not bumped, I would grieve this and would encourage anyone in the same situation to grieve this, as well.

I here you. I initially believed the same but the PHX people that might be affected have been told that they can take an open position or bump if they are bumped. I base it on what has been said here. Yes, I do see your point.

P. Rez

 

[pjirish317]

I believe that all open positions have to be filled first BEFORE Juniority bumping can occur. You cannot just bump somebody out of their current position unless all opening are filled. Period no exceptions. Just because somebody does not want to go to PHL or DCA does not mean that they can bump to PHX by juniority, if there is an opening in those stations. They have three options, go to where the openings are, go part time in station, or accept furlough. You can't pick and choose who to juniority bump. It starts from the bottom up, once all positions are filled.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

Hopefully, the union and the company can get together and help the other pull their heads out of their butts. Then, they should allow those affected at LAS and elsewhere to re-submit their lists to include DCA and PHL if they seriously want to retain their employment at this company.

 

[goodfellow]

I believe that all open positions have to be filled first BEFORE Juniority bumping can occur. You cannot just bump somebody out of their current position unless all opening are filled. Period no exceptions. Just because somebody does not want to go to PHL or DCA does not mean that they can bump to PHX by juniority, if there is an opening in those stations. They have three options, go to where the openings are, go part time in station, or accept furlough. You can't pick and choose who to juniority bump. It starts from the bottom up, once all positions are filled.

PJ, Thanks, all vacancies must be filled before juniority can be applied. The west does not know the scope of the contract and it is new to them. The company gave bad info to the LAS agents and the ND guys made the interim director reexplain the process to the LAS affected. If the vacancies are not filled then juniority will not take effect. I wish Jester would help his co workers with his high level of intelect instead of politicing against the new guys, which now have grievance offices inLAS and PHX as well as DCA along with the GC now having time off to help the members and did I mention this was done in less than 1 year! The old regime was happy without the afforsed benefits to the memberswhip cause they were worried about their carreers. Jester please google their qualifications and then report? Answer this Jester, how many times did the old have the balls to enter a breakroom during furloughs? The Union was always and still is given last minute info, yet ND will and always will face the membership to adress all concerns. They got their info after the packets were handed out? Management was absent to face the LAS people yet the leadership of the Union had the BALL"S to meet face to face. Jester you are very inteligent, Please post only when you know the truth. Take the Politics elsewhere during these hard times for our Sisters and Brothers. THX GF

 

[P. REZ]

PJ, Thanks, all vacancies must be filled before juniority can be applied. The west does not know the scope of the contract and it is new to them. The company gave bad info to the LAS agents and the ND guys made the interim director reexplain the process to the LAS affected. If the vacancies are not filled then juniority will not take effect. I wish Jester would help his co workers with his high level of intelect instead of politicing against the new guys, which now have grievance offices inLAS and PHX as well as DCA along with the GC now having time off to help the members and did I mention this was done in less than 1 year! The old regime was happy without the afforsed benefits to the memberswhip cause they were worried about their carreers. Jester please google their qualifications and then report? Answer this Jester, how many times did the old have the balls to enter a breakroom during furloughs? The Union was always and still is given last minute info, yet ND will and always will face the membership to adress all concerns. They got their info after the packets were handed out? Management was absent to face the LAS people yet the leadership of the Union had the BALL"S to meet face to face. Jester you are very inteligent, Please post only when you know the truth. Take the Politics elsewhere during these hard times for our Sisters and Brothers. THX GF

Thanks for the information. PHX admin. was giving incomplete information. LAS should be allowed to resubmit their paperwork if they were led down the path PHX was.

 

[Kev3188]

This language seems unnecessarily complex to me.

Not for nothing, but at NW, it's done by straight seniority. When displacing out onto the system, you can bump whatever/wherever you can hold, period.

For those that are affected, where they're going is one less thing to have to worry about

 

[necigrad]

Since everyone keeps refering to the CBA, I decided to actually post the section in question:

B. 2. (a) (1) Be permitted to bid, in Classification Seniority order, available full-time Agent positions in other stations. If there are insufficient available full-time positions, employees may displace, in Classification Seniority order, the most junior full-time employees on the system; or

The next two paragraphs are the option to displace a PT in your station or accept furlough. I have tried to get the quote verbatim, down to the capitalization and punctuation as things like that really do matter. If I made an error there please let me know so I can correct it.

The questionable verbiage (as pertains to our discussion) is

If there are insufficient available full-time positions, employees may displace, in Classification Seniority order, the most junior full-time employees on the system

If you look at the situation NOW there are insufficent FT positions, so one could displace the most junior. If you look at the situation as the award is made unless people choose the vacancies then no one will be able to bump. This is going to be where the spirit and intent come into play and those ARE VALID CLAIMS. The spirit and intent are part of the document even though they are not written. If this goes to arbitration, I'd predict that the ruling would be something like

The Company has proven that at no time was there insufficient vacancies...

and then either A:

...and therefore I find for the Company in this matter

or B:

...however, I believe the intent was to accomodate all displaced employees without undue hardship to either the displaced employees or the junior employees. Therefore, I find in favor of the Union, in asmuch that having far fewer vacancies then displaced employees is an unreasonable method to prevent Juniority from taking place. Furthermore, the Companies position implies that any one vacancy in any one Station could result in many hundred employees being furloughed because of that Stations particulars.

Do those choices sound "lawyer" enough?

 

[pjirish317]

necigrad,

You are correct in that "if" there were insufficiant positions, then juniority only occurs after those positions are filled. Once all openings are filled then juniority starts, from the bottom, one can't pick where they can go. Bottom up, thats how it goes. For example, lets say that only 10 furloughees can juniority bump, they can only take the positions of the bottom 10, thats it. If all 10 junior people are in PHL, then PHL is where they go. I am pretty sure though, that there are enough openings systemwide that juniority may not occur. I hope this helps.

 

[goodfellow]

necigrad,

You are correct in that "if" there were insufficiant positions, then juniority only occurs after those positions are filled. Once all openings are filled then juniority starts, from the bottom, one can't pick where they can go. Bottom up, thats how it goes. For example, lets say that only 10 furloughees can juniority bump, they can only take the positions of the bottom 10, thats it. If all 10 junior people are in PHL, then PHL is where they go. I am pretty sure though, that there are enough openings systemwide that juniority may not occur. I hope this helps.

PJ, you are correct again. if the vacancies that the company offered are not filled then juniority will not be applied during the displacement. The Union demanded from the company the numbers of vacancies FT and Pt and will make sure any unfilled vacancies are filled with the pe-66 transfer form. Last furlough the company bypassed juniority by offering vacancies that were numerically more than the number of people displaced. Thus they were able to protect PHX from higher seniority transfers, Yes they are manipulating the contract by offering vacancies that may or may not exhist? They however honored the pe-66 transfers after the last furlough and are being watched carefully on how they will act after the current furlough.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

Okay, boys and ghouls, now that we've reached a consensus who is going to contact the union and management that they need to get together and produce a new package as they so bollocksed up the last one.

Pj, what you stated was my literal interpretation of that subparagraph. When I saw the events unfolding with the packages, I figured I was all wrong. The option of bumping is a roulette wheel. One really needs to sit down and really decide if this job is worth it. You bump and get a place you don't want and refuse, then you have resigned. No unemployment, no flight benefits, no nothing.

 

[bagchucker]

It is a shame and something that would make me furious if I were an affected FSA at LAS. The seriousness of 200+ folks losing their job is not something you want to get wrong when offering the options. Yes, the contract spells out HOW the process works... why a spin was put on it by MGMT is fraudulent!! This is where our union voice needs to be loud an clear. WTF! It just shows just how the rank and file in FSA are really thought of ... I'm pissed for the LAS folks.