Amfa Meetings

[LavMan]

Cat once again you post inaccurate facts, they still do heavy maintenance at SFO, they did not farm out all their maintenance and 70% of the mechanic and related voted for their contract at UAL and knew it would cause IND and OAK to be shut down.

And at the amfa meeting they did acknowledge the loss of jobs, but blamed it on force majuere due to 9/11 the war on Iraq and SARS, funny no other airline or group at NWA was force majuered because of the war on Iraq and SARS, also what about amfa's language that if one member is on lay off they cant farm work out? Currently NWA has 44% farm out over the cap of 38% in their contract.

NWA had 9,500 now 4,500 go ask any AMFA mechanic at NWA and they will tell you.

 

[to much time to quit]

DELETED BY MODERATOR, Oh I mean lavman, Your are once againg DELETED. United does not do heavy maintenance in SFO. They do C-checks only. I am amazed that someone who did not spend anytime in A&P school that you personally know so many technicians at all of these other carriers. And the IAM did agree to GIVE AWAY ALL OF HEAVY MAINTENANCE at United!! And they paid the price by getting the boot. And on top of that the IAM brags that they settled an industry leading contract at United. I think thats where you got your training, when you DELETED so much you begin to believe your own DELETED and lose touch with reality.

 

[PITbull]

Moderators,

Are we permitted on these boards to refer to posters as liars? Just curious.

 

[to much time to quit]

Moderators,

Are we permitted on these boards to refer to posters as liars? Just curious.

Would a BIG FIBBER be better?

 

[LavMan]

A 5 day C-check heavy maintenance work done inside a hangar, not outside, not overnight mtc and ask Delldude about the C-CHeck in PIT which has been there over 30 days!

I did not post q or d check, I said they did not get rid of all their heavy maintenance.

And wherever a UAL plane is undegoing heavy mtc their will be UAL inspectors at that facility.

Get your facts straight, Rober Roach did not vote and ratify UAL's contract, IAM MEMBERS AT UAL DID, a matter of FACT 70% of them did, not the negotiators the MEMBERSHIP, maybe you have been inside the fuel tank too long to comprehend that!

And you still did not answer how come NWA is farming out 44% of their maintenance, that includes line, not just heavy, when their contract states 38%?

Why is there still farmouts occuring at NWA while their contracts states if one member is on layoff they cannot farmout work?


Northwest has not even entered into bankruptcy but, they continue to decimate the MCC at NWA. All AMFA has done is complain in the news media. While AMFA was complaining District 141M was successful in defending their members rights in Federal court.

When AMFA was certified as the bargaining agent there were 9,504 in the Northwest MCC. HERE Since November 1998 AMFA has allowed NWA to place over 4,500 MCC on layoff status.

If NWA management is successful at laying off another 1,000 mechanics their numbers will be reduced to 3,905 mechanics left on payroll status. This would be a loss of nearly 60% of all the mechanic jobs at NWA.

 

[PITbull]

Not respectful.

 

[UAL_TECH]

FYI,

RestructuringAmendment141M.pdf
-------------------------------------------------
REF: Page 7 - Job Security and Scope
-------------------------------------------------

Revise Article II-D (restriction on contracting out no more than 20% of all
maintenance work) to provide that (a) the Company may contract out the work
of heavy maintenance visits without restriction and (b ) the Company may
contract out up to 20% of all remaining maintenance work as currently
measured by the sum of the annual budget. Article IV-B will also be revised to
provide that IAM inspectors will perform oversight inspection at any location
where United’s heavy maintenance is performed, applying Company standards
and subject to Company review.
Revise Article II-D to read:
-------------------------------------------------
(cont Page 8)
-------------------------------------------------
D. The Company may contract out the work of heavy maintenance visits (as
defined by current Company practices consistent with AOP and MOP
guidelines) without restriction. Additionally, the Company may contract out up
to 20% of all remaining maintenance work annually as measured by the sum of
the Maintenance Operations Division's gross annual budget, excluding the cost
of heavy maintenance visits, plus those portions of stations' total gross annual
budgets attributable to building maintenance and ground equipment
maintenance, provided however this percentage may be exceeded in the event
the Company has fully utilized its existing equipment or facilities.
-------------------------------------------------

UAL is currently outsourcing all of HMV.
C-Checks at UAL are currently not 'considered' HMV (even if it is performed in a hanger).
Anytime UAL considers C-Checks HMV, then they too would (will?) be gone.

This is a 'FACT'.

UT

 

[757fixer]

Lav,any part 121 Carrier that contracts out mtc work has to have on sight quality control.The IAM didn't negotiate anything that isn't already covered by the FAR's.Go to FAA.gov and read the regs for yourself.

 

[av60]

Act like a man and stop crying.

The second vote happened because David Siegel said he would hold his own ratification vote because of misinformation he gave out during the road shows.

Dave Siegel can have as many votes he wants to, it doesn't mean a thing unless the iam says ok.

The international stood back and let the 2nd vote happen.
Why?
$$$$$$$$$$$ It couldn't stand the thought of losing dues money, and a 1.25 mill. payoff.
Glad it didn't get its hands on our pension.
But it got to be recognized as the representing union at MAA.
Till they send in the amfa cards and kick them out.

If the iam couldn't stop him then, what makes you think it can now?

 

[to much time to quit]

FYI,

[UAL is currently outsourcing all of HMV.
C-Checks at UAL are currently not 'considered' HMV (even if it is performed in a hanger).
Anytime UAL considers C-Checks HMV, then they too would (will?) be gone.

This is a 'FACT'.

UT

UAL tech, thank you for the information. Maybe some members will stop spreading untruthful information. lavman Its amazing how certain people lav seem to know whats going on at every carrier in the United States.

 

[ata36bg]

LavMan,

You and I were at the same AMFA informational meeting. At this meeting the outsourcing and layoffs at NW were discussed. The AMFA officials said that although 38% was the amount NW was allowed to farm out only 27% or so was actually being farmed. In your recent posts you insist this number is 44%. I know that if I asked the leadership at AMFA,in their minds to remain credible they would attempt to back up these numbers. Can you do the same? Or is this number the one you chose to use in your attempt to sway the minds of those who read this board? Either yourself or AMFA is not being truthful, or should I say "accurate." I would like to know if you can clear this up for me LavMan. I'll ask AMFA next if you are unable to do so. Or better yet, if you want I'll ask the people at AMFA first and then let you respond to them. Your call LavMan.

By the way, if you don't want to discuss "working by the book" online then please don't offer it as a self help tactic in your posts.

 

[LavMan]

The 44% came from the FAA and DOT,

And self-help is withdrawing your services.

If when NWA had 9,500 mechanics under the IAM and when AMFA was certfied, why are there onley 4,500 mechanics there now?

Amfa claims the IAM had 100% farmout, now I was not a math major, but how did NWA need 9,500 mechanics when they farmed out 100% according to amfa and now they as you say they are only farming out 27% and now they have 4,500 mechanics, now those #s dont seem to add up now do they?

 

[High Iron]

The 44% came from the FAA and DOT,

And self-help is withdrawing your services.

If when NWA had 9,500 mechanics under the IAM and when AMFA was certfied, why are there onley 4,500 mechanics there now?

Amfa claims the IAM had 100% farmout, now I was not a math major, but how did NWA need 9,500 mechanics when they farmed out 100% according to amfa and now they as you say they are only farming out 27% and now they have 4,500 mechanics, now those #s dont seem to add up now do they?

If you're going to employ post-hoc logic in your stable of weapons, then at least be willing to fall on your own sword;

NWA still has 6K mechanics, not 4500 ( or 4000...the figure du-jour seems to vary by the day ). If you're attributing the loss of 1/3 or so of NWA's mechanics to AMFA's fecklessness.....To what can we attribute the decimation of our own ranks? Or any other airline's for that matter?

 

[ata36bg]

The 44% came from the FAA and DOT,

And self-help is withdrawing your services.

If when NWA had 9,500 mechanics under the IAM and when AMFA was certfied, why are there onley 4,500 mechanics there now?

Amfa claims the IAM had 100% farmout, now I was not a math major, but how did NWA need 9,500 mechanics when they farmed out 100% according to amfa and now they as you say they are only farming out 27% and now they have 4,500 mechanics, now those #s dont seem to add up now do they?

Please tell me this is not the best you can do. You know that AMFA has not claimed that the IAM allowed 100% of the mechanics to be farmed out. You are insulting me with this kind of rebuttal and your sarcastic response. AMFA does not claim that the IAM allowed 100% of the mechanics to be farmed out. They claim, and no one has yet to refute this, that under the previous contract NW had the legal right to farm out 100% of the work, if they so desired. This does not mean that NW did farm out that much work. I know you are not a math major, I never said you were. I also know who you are and that you are an intelligent person. But, posting this type of misleading information undermines what you stand for LavMan. You know what you are saying is not right yet you continue to do so, why is this? You know that the majority of people laid off by NW was due to there using the force majure (sp?) provision in their contract. Yet you continue to say it wasn’t.

Your chart is interesting but what I see is we at US Airways have been paying 50% of our maintenance costs to outside vendors. Why is this something to post and be proud of? One last thing, can you tell me where you got the DOT and FAA figures you say you used. I am assuming that the chart you posted is not it since it does very little to explain the 44% of mechanics you state is accurate. These figures are for the total costs farmed out by the company, including materials and labor. It is not a representation of actual mechanics laid off due to the farming of the work as you say. If you can’t find the actual reports I can look them up myself.

 

[ata36bg]

"And self-help is withdrawing your services."

"...Oh and there is plenty we can do about the airbus work, legal self-help being one of them, working by the book is another. Apparently you never have been involved in a labor dispute, did you walk the picket line in 92 like we did?"

Lav Man,

I apologize for the mistake with my quote. The above quote by you is what I was talking about. This is what I meant when I said don't bring it up yourself if you don't want people to discuss it on this site.